Salute this.

[Raptor2216]

Besides, with the number of junior Es running around this place that see no need to salute lowly 2ndLts and ENSs, it's safer to keep it proper IMO, at least at the TRACOM.

Speaking of the aforementioned Jr. E's, I ran into about the sorriest bunch yesterday. By now, i've come to realize that O1's don't stack up to much around quantico and pensacola so I never make an issue of it but some of these Jr. E's are flat out nasty and need an ass chewing.

I was walking behind the MATSG-21 building and there were was 4 or 5 Navy Jr. E's having a little conversation. I wasn't really expecting them to even salute, which would have been better than how they actually responded. One of then, stepped out from the crowd, and popped up about the worst salute I have ever seen and said, "hey, how's it going", while the rest just stodd there with their arms crossed. Again, I am by no means the type that "demands" respect but that is just absurd. Does the Navy even bother teaching them how to deal with officers?

 

[Harrier Dude]

Does the Navy even bother teaching them how to deal with officers?

It appears that the training in that regard could be improved by the navy. More importantly, what did you do about? If you didn't correct them and conduct a little training, then you can't tell the navy that they're AFU.

 

[Cordespc]

This subject tends to gripe my ass, and the occurrances (I average about once a week) are sometimes difficult for me to handle in my usual, jovial manner.

I usually provide some on-the-spot training, and try to do it in a friendly, mentor-ish fashion, even implementing humor as mentioned in a thread posted by Fezz a long time ago that I am too lazy to link to. In the last three weeks, I have passed E-3 and below personnel at shoulder-brushing distance and been totally snubbed 3 times.

-One told me he had been told not to salute "Officers in a training status." He was told this by his section leader, AR Soandso, who has been here 3 months, and "knows what's going on." After informing him that perhaps AR (AR= E-1) Soandso might not know what's going on, and that military cusoms and courtesies are extended to all officers, regardless of rank, I returned his (belated) salute, and sent him on his way. Later I realized that perhaps he was confused, and thought that I was an OCS candidate, but I digress.

- One walked right past me and received the "Hey, how ya doin' Shipmate?" from me. He responded, "Oh...sorry sir.." While looking at his toes and rendering a disgusting salute.

- Pair-male/female walking in front of the gym, I looked at them and smiled, male responded, "Hello Sir." "Hey Shipmates, did we forget something?" Male responds: "I said hello sir." After correcting the situation, inquiring as to whether or not military customs and courtesies are still part of the curriculum at RTC Great Lakes, and sending them on their way, I walked to my truck feeling like a complete asshole, and kind of pissed off at myself for not handling it better.

Later that day 2 female Officer Candidates walked right through a dozen or so 2ndLts in front of the Museum without so much as a "What's up?"

I am by no means a (total) asshole, or regulations nazi, but blatent disregard for basic military customs tends to chap my ass. I will continue to correct as necessary, but I really wish there were a long term solution being implemented. For what it's worth, I have never encountered this problem with a Marine. They seem to go out of their way to render a salute and greeting...sometimes from so far away I almost miss them. Not saying it's impossible for a Marine to display the same characteristics, but I haven't seen it, at NASP anyway.

I read in the 'Times' several years ago that the Navy was stashing Ensigns at RTC to serve as "Salute Targets" for recruits. While that sounds like a total waste of money....maybe it worked.

Ok, this ends my rant, sorry for the long post, this is what I get for browsing AW whilst drinking.

 

[Goober]

Ok, this ends my rant, sorry for the long post, this is what I get for browsing AW whilst drinking.

No apology necessary. Continue said rant as required. BTW, we are the solution. No excuse for it. No need to be an ass to them, but if you don't expect the respect you've earned you won't get it. Just like Harrier Dude said, make the correction, ensure they understand, and move on. Nothing to feel badly about afterward.

 

[skidkid]

Mant ways to make this correction. Honestly one of the ebast I witnessed was from a prior SSgt. He called the Sailor over and asked "Can you tell the difference between the Officer who will stop you and explian military courtesies and the one who will jsut let it go?"

"No Sir"

"Well until you can try saluting them all"

 

[scoober78]

So...since we're on the topic...When going through a gate....what exactly do you expect? I am always covered when coming aboard and normally get a standard salute. Sometimes its quick, which I can understand because there is likely a line of cars out the gate, but it looks like a normal salute.

The other day, I was driving onboard and the E-5 checks my ID very carefully and then waves me through with this sorta chest high wave. It occured to me that it was likely improper but in that scenario, with cars behind, what would you guys do?

 

[Gatordev]

Moved to it's own thread since it's a good topic.

 

[Brett327]

So...since we're on the topic...When going through a gate....what exactly do you expect? I am always covered when coming aboard and normally get a standard salute. Sometimes its quick, which I can understand because there is likely a line of cars out the gate, but it looks like a normal salute.

The other day, I was driving onboard and the E-5 checks my ID very carefully and then waves me through with this sorta chest high wave. It occured to me that it was likely improper but in that scenario, with cars behind, what would you guys do?

Stop your vehicle, get out, and make a big scene in front of everyone.

Brett

 

[squorch2]

So...since we're on the topic...When going through a gate....what exactly do you expect? I am always covered when coming aboard and normally get a standard salute. Sometimes its quick, which I can understand because there is likely a line of cars out the gate, but it looks like a normal salute.

The other day, I was driving onboard and the E-5 checks my ID very carefully and then waves me through with this sorta chest high wave. It occured to me that it was likely improper but in that scenario, with cars behind, what would you guys do?

The guards at Norfolk are a mix of civilian and junior enlisted, but I've never had a problem with lack of salutes/respect. I'd make a quick correction of the guy/gal if there weren't too many cars behind me. Hell, when people show up without their ID, it closes down a whole lane while the guard escorts the guy through the u-turn, so a 15 second correction shouldn't be too bad.

 

[Purdue]

So...since we're on the topic...When going through a gate....what exactly do you expect? I am always covered when coming aboard and normally get a standard salute. Sometimes its quick, which I can understand because there is likely a line of cars out the gate, but it looks like a normal salute.

The other day, I was driving onboard and the E-5 checks my ID very carefully and then waves me through with this sorta chest high wave. It occured to me that it was likely improper but in that scenario, with cars behind, what would you guys do?

Perhaps it was sloppily done, but I believe if he was armed he can salute across his chest. I'm sure you know that, and I wasnt sure if you meant he saluted across his chest, or just "waved you through".

In the "order arms salute," the rifle rests on its butt by the sentry's right foot, held near the muzzle by the sentry's right hand, and does not move. The sentry brings his flattened left hand across his body and touches the rifle near its muzzle. When the rifle is being carried on the shoulder, a similar gesture is used in which the flattened free hand is brought across the body to touch the rifle near the rear of the receiver.

And on this note: at Vance, although I think there are only 14 enlisted personnel on the base... I have never seen one blow off a salute. But, I've also never been saluted at the gate. At Pensacola and even at Eglin AFB (where I did IFS) I was saluted every time I came through the gate... enlisted personnel or civilian security guard. Now at Vance, the security guards are all civilians... no enlisted, but they do not salute. So I'm not sure if that's AF policy or what. :icon_tong Cause Eglin didn't do it this way...

I do remember getting blown off a few times in P-cola... and it is rough, you feel like a complete dick correcting them. especially when they are so similar in age to some of us younger Ensigns. It is an art form, correcting a sailor without looking like the nazi-like officer that corrects insignificant things... but it's an art form you need to master as an officer. And the sooner the better, in my opinion.

 

[fc2spyguy]

Perhaps it was sloppily done, but I believe if he was armed he can salute across his chest. I'm sure you know that, and I wasnt sure if you meant he saluted across his chest, or just "waved you through".

I believe you're wrong on this point. The only time I know you are allowed to salute across the the chest is when you have a flag in the right hand. You then use the left hand across the chest as a salute. Though I will verify this, I am 99% certain on that one. Oh yeah, holding a rifle is different than a pistol too. So, that wouldn't be a factor either, add that as another time you use the left hand to salute across the chest, rifle right shoulder.

Okay, so I verified it through the Marine Corps drill manual. Indeed, the only time you salute across the chest is w/ a guidon or a rifle. The manual explicitly states that a hand salute is rendered when a pistol is holstered.

 

[BlkPny]

Now, on the other side of the coin.....
I went directly from Viet Nam to a joint command, HQ, US European Command, in Germany. 14 Generals and Admirals on staff. As a lowly jg, I thought I was well under the radar. On the second day I was there I walked out of the Command Center and up the street, about 20 paces behind an Army two-star. As I was walking along I heard someone yelling "Good Afternoon, Sir!" Both the General and I looked across the street. A Navy E-4 had his hand up saluting me with the biggest smile on his face you can imagine. He was totally ignoring the Army General, but making a point to salute a junior Navy Officer.
You will find some situations where those under your rank not only willingly salute you, but absolutely glory in it. Enjoy it. Smile back, return the salute, and enjoy the team spirit.

 

[DocT]

You can salute "across the chest" when carrying a rifle at right shoulder arms. The forearm comes across the body parallel to the deck with the index finger touching the bottom of the charging handle.

When the rifle is at order arms the hand comes across the body and touches the end of the muzzle.

However, most gate guards I've seen use a cupped hand motioning toward the chest to wave traffic through. Unless he was at the POA at the gate, he wasn't saluting.

 

[fc2spyguy]

You can salute "across the chest" when carrying a rifle at right shoulder arms. The forearm comes across the body parallel to the deck with the index finger touching the bottom of the charging handle.

When the rifle is at order arms the hand comes across the body and touches the end of the muzzle.

However, most gate guards I've seen use a cupped hand motioning toward the chest to wave traffic through. Unless he was at the POA at the gate, he wasn't saluting.

Yeah, I meant right shoulder, not port, mistake corrected.

 

[Snacks]

So...since we're on the topic...When going through a gate....what exactly do you expect? I am always covered when coming aboard and normally get a standard salute. Sometimes its quick, which I can understand because there is likely a line of cars out the gate, but it looks like a normal salute.

The other day, I was driving onboard and the E-5 checks my ID very carefully and then waves me through with this sorta chest high wave. It occured to me that it was likely improper but in that scenario, with cars behind, what would you guys do?

A guy I know (who's a complete ass anyway) drives onto the base, turns around, and goes through the gate again. The second time through he explains that he's an officer and he is entitled to a salute. Once again, this guy is an ass...