Saluting

[BlueBird]

Being a corporal in the Marines, and currently on PTAD while waiting on my commission, I learned a few things:
1.) The less you wear your uniform, the less you have to worry about saluting. I keep my uniform at my duty station and just change there. It's easier and it stays clean longer. That being said, the old saying goes, "When in doubt, whip it out." Meaning, it's always better to salute and be wrong then to NOT salute and be wrong.
2.)PTAD is all about looking good for the Marine Corps. Don't do something stupid, have a nasty uniform, etc., because it's magnified when you're in a quasi-recruiter role.
3.)For PSno23, don't get mad if you're not getting saluted at flight school. Most of these PFC's and LCpl have been to Iraq and back (maybe more than once) and have definently been in the green machine as long, if not longer than you. You're still in a military school, meaning you haven't done any real fleet time, and they see hundreds of LT's just like you, they have better things to do than worrying about saluting everyone. Wait a couple of years when you get some silver on the collars and the salutes will start flying more frequently.
4.)The silkies are sexy

 

[DocT]

For PSno23, don't get mad if you're not getting saluted at flight school. Most of these PFC's and LCpl have been to Iraq and back (maybe more than once) and have definently been in the green machine as long, if not longer than you. You're still in a military school, meaning you haven't done any real fleet time, and they see hundreds of LT's just like you, they have better things to do than worrying about saluting everyone. Wait a couple of years when you get some silver on the collars and the salutes will start flying more frequently.

What happened to salute the rank, not the man?

 

[Steve Wilkins]

3.)For PSno23, don't get mad if you're not getting saluted at flight school. Most of these PFC's and LCpl have been to Iraq and back (maybe more than once) and have definently been in the green machine as long, if not longer than you. You're still in a military school, meaning you haven't done any real fleet time, and they see hundreds of LT's just like you, they have better things to do than worrying about saluting everyone. Wait a couple of years when you get some silver on the collars and the salutes will start flying more frequently.

I'm growing tired of the "I have combat experience and you don't, so I'm not going to salute you" attitude. Yea, I've seen it and it's a bunch of BS. Basic, basic, basic military courtesy 101. LCPL: E-3, CPL: E-4 ENS: O-1. The "O" stands for officer, commissioned officer that is. The "E" stands for enlisted. Enlisted salute commissioned officers. Like I just got saying earlier today already...if you don't like the rules, don't play the game. PSno23, if you are seeing Sailors or Marines do this sh!t, you better be "educating" them.

 

[squeeze]

3.)For PSno23, don't get mad if you're not getting saluted at flight school. Most of these PFC's and LCpl have been to Iraq and back (maybe more than once) and have definently been in the green machine as long, if not longer than you. You're still in a military school, meaning you haven't done any real fleet time, and they see hundreds of LT's just like you, they have better things to do than worrying about saluting everyone. Wait a couple of years when you get some silver on the collars and the salutes will start flying more frequently.

bullsh-t. most of those pvts, pfcs, and lcpls at pensacola are fresh out of boot/mct and at their mos school. they, above all, should have etiquette drilled into their heads by now. a capt is no more deserving of a salute than a boot lieutenant. carry yourself like a p_ssy and let proper etiquette slide and yes, people will walk all over you. be confident and uphold the standards and you wont have to correct as many people.

 

[PSno23]

PSno23, if you are seeing Sailors or Marines do this sh!t, you better be "educating" them.

Oh don't worry, we have no problem "educating" them. There really isn't any problem with the Marines, just the few who keep their head down. The ones who do salute are usually pretty motivated and give out a loud, "Good morning, Sir!" to any 2ndLt. I think with the Navy, they're just that nasty and the usual response after correcting them is, "well I didn't see you." HA. It's not like I need a salute to make me feel better about myself, but it's something you can't let slide, in my opinion. Better for them to get chewed out by a boot Lt than a Colonel.

I also get tired of the "I've been to Iraq and you haven't" mentality. That's great if they've been. But that gives them no right to piss on proper military courtesy and order. The fact that an enlisted Marine may have been in combat doesn't give them a higher rank than an officer. That's just crap. And to echo squeeze, the vast majority of Pvts, PFCs, and LCpls here are going through MOS school. I doubt they made it to Iraq between MCT and Pensacola.

 

[Crowbar]

3.)For PSno23, don't get mad if you're not getting saluted at flight school. Most of these PFC's and LCpl have been to Iraq and back (maybe more than once) and have definently been in the'green machine' as long, if not longer than you. You're still in a military school, meaning you haven't done any real fleet time, and they see hundreds of LT's just like you, they have better things to do than worrying about saluting everyone. Wait a couple of years when you get some silver on the collars and the salutes will start flying more frequently.

Have to break this one out again...

Those PFCs and LCpls haven't been anywhere but the depot and MCT. Pensacola is their MOS school. I went through AVA back when it was still in Memphis, so I know just how boot they are.

Ditto to what Steve and Squeeze said. When I was enlisted, I didn't blow off officers/salutes because someone hadn't been in as long as I had. Why would anybody and why should anybody accept that behavior?

BlueBird, I'm hoping I'm wrong here but it sounds like the reason you tell people to expect this kind of behavior is because you exhibit it yourself. Also, I'd like to see a PFC/LCpl with 11+ years of service...

 

[BlueBird]

First off, the original post said there are marines that just look at you and don't salute, it didn't necessarily mean E-3's and below. And second, I salute every officer that I see, I wouldn't be about to receive my commission if I didn't respect officers and play by the rules. All I'm saying is as a second lieutenant, you need to put things into perspective. A lot of Marines look as 2nd LT's as Lcpls with a college degree. As officers, we go through a shorter "boot camp" and suddenly everyone up to the Sgt. Major has to salute us? In my opinion, that's a hard pill to swallow. And we shouldn't be taking it out on the Lcpls and PFC's for not saluting we should be talking to the Staff NCO's for not correcting the problem. It would mean a lot more for a Gunny to come up to one of these kids and tell them he was wrong, rather than a fresh lieutenant who has his "firewatch" ribbon on sideways (sorry, that was a joke). I didn't mean to demeanor the respect that a salute carries, but sometimes we take things like salutes and "sir" so seriously that our marines look at officers as somewhat unapproachable. I would rather my marines talk to me openly (with respect) than have to worry about appending "sir" onto everything and not giving me the whole scoop. Hopefully that didn't confuse anyone, I apologize for the previous post if it did do that.

 

[jamnww]

Being a corporal in the Marines,

3.)For PSno23, don't get mad if you're not getting saluted at flight school. Most of these PFC's and LCpl have been to Iraq and back (maybe more than once) and have definently been in the green machine as long, if not longer than you. You're still in a military school, meaning you haven't done any real fleet time, and they see hundreds of LT's just like you, they have better things to do than worrying about saluting everyone. Wait a couple of years when you get some silver on the collars and the salutes will start flying more frequently.

From a Cpl I would expect a great deal better than this and for an officer I would certainly expect more. If ANYONE goes to Pensacola with this type of mindframe you will be the exception, every Marine Officer I know enforces this like nothing else...

 

[jamnww]

I wouldn't be about to receive my commission if I didn't respect officers and play by the rules. All I'm saying is as a second lieutenant, you need to put things into perspective. A lot of Marines look as 2nd LT's as Lcpls with a college degree. As officers, we go through a shorter "boot camp" and suddenly everyone up to the Sgt. Major has to salute us? In my opinion, that's a hard pill to swallow.

Just wait till you get to TBS and your opinion will change...I knew a prior who at TBS remarked "I used to think that the saying (basically see your comment above) but after going through this crap (less PC word) I can't believe that I ever did...I never knew they had to go through all this training..."

4 years of College
OCS 6-12 wks
TBS 6 months
MOS School (depends on the MOS)
Arrive at new command undeserving of the respect accorded to the rank...I don't think so...

 

[BlueBird]

I agree, enlisted should salute officers, I wasn't trying to say that. Like I said, I always saluted because I respect officers (the main reason I wanted to become one) but what about those officers that render a half ass salute? Or worse, don't even salute back. What does that look like? It does go both ways. Just keep things in perspective, that's all. It is discouraging to salute an officer and get a lazy hand gesture near the cover as if that's a salute. Salutes work both ways, by giving that crisp salute back, you show you respect that PFC enough to render a proper salute. Like I said, I respect and expect my fellow marines to respect officers, but just yelling at them to salute does nothing more than cause them to look at you as a prick--which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Somewhere along the lines, we've gotten so serious about salutes that it almost seems like you could call the guy an *******, but as long as you saluted while you did it, then it was cool. I've had enlisted blow off an officer's orders (or tweak them a bit in his favor) and not get in trouble while an officer will stop and get out of his car to make sure some marine salutes.

 

[jamnww]

I agree, enlisted should salute officers, I wasn't trying to say that. Like I said, I always saluted because I respect officers (the main reason I wanted to become one) but what about those officers that render a half ass salute? Or worse, don't even salute back. What does that look like? It does go both ways. Just keep things in perspective, that's all. It is discouraging to salute an officer and get a lazy hand gesture near the cover as if that's a salute. Salutes work both ways, by giving that crisp salute back, you show you respect that PFC enough to render a proper salute.

Agreed, they do go both ways...the only "bad" salutes I ever saw were at OCS...since then things have been pretty good...salute wise...

 

[Crowbar]

First off, the original post said there are marines that just look at you and don't salute, it didn't necessarily mean E-3's and below. And second, I salute every officer that I see, I wouldn't be about to receive my commission if I didn't respect officers and play by the rules. All I'm saying is as a second lieutenant, you need to put things into perspective. A lot of Marines look as 2nd LT's as Lcpls with a college degree. As officers, we go through a shorter "boot camp" and suddenly everyone up to the Sgt. Major has to salute us? In my opinion, that's a hard pill to swallow. And we shouldn't be taking it out on the Lcpls and PFC's for not saluting we should be talking to the Staff NCO's for not correcting the problem. It would mean a lot more for a Gunny to come up to one of these kids and tell them he was wrong, rather than a fresh lieutenant who has his "firewatch" ribbon on sideways (sorry, that was a joke). I didn't mean to demeanor the respect that a salute carries, but sometimes we take things like salutes and "sir" so seriously that our marines look at officers as somewhat unapproachable. I would rather my marines talk to me openly (with respect) than have to worry about appending "sir" onto everything and not giving me the whole scoop. Hopefully that didn't confuse anyone, I apologize for the previous post if it did do that.

That is so far removed from what you originally said. Why don't you pick something and stick with it. Better yet, why don't you wait until you have some time, any time, as an officer and see how you get treated. Then you can pontificate on what it's like to be an officer and how you should just 'let things go' because you were a salty prior Corporal.

 

[PSno23]

First off, the original post said there are marines that just look at you and don't salute, it didn't necessarily mean E-3's and below.

Actually, nowhere in my post did I say that Marines just look at you and don't salute, thats what some of the Navy does. It's still unacceptable and calls for a correction. Why let it slide and then go talk to their SNCO when you can correct them right there. If you don't do anything about it then, it just leads them to believe its ok and so they'll continue doing it.

Now, obviously, I've never given an ass-chewing to a Marine for failing to salute - there's no need to. But there's nothing wrong with correcting them in a tactful manner, which is what I've normally seen done.

 

[Cordespc]

I went through AVA in Pensacola in 98/99. At that time I had minimal exposure to military life (9 weeks at RTC), and had yet to perfect the art of identifying Commissioned Officers from afar. After accidentally saluting a couple air crewman in flight suits and one or two Officer Candidates, I must have been about as confused as a baby in a topless bar.

I saw my share of students do the 'looking at the ground' routine while approaching a possible officer. While certainly in violation of military protocol, this behavior is likely linked to low self confidence, inexperience, and the fear of being embarrassed while inadvertently saluting yet another Candi-O. I very rarely witness this activity at any of the fleet Naval Stations or NASs, and I think that is a testament to the leadership of the senior personnel who undoubtedly corrected the situation at the source.

As for receiving nasty, apathetic salutes in return, I have found that a confident, audible greeting accompanied with a sharp salute will almost always merit a motivated reply from any Officer.

Cheers,
Paul/AT1/OCC191 Applicant

 

[Brett327]

I smell a troll.

Brett