I was wondering if anyone had any specific information about the number of seats that have been available for Cobras in the helo pipeline. Obviously there is no consistency in these numbers but I would love to see some different experiences people have had or witnessed with that selecting airframe (and flying cobras if anyone has anything to share about that!) Thanks a lot
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Selecting Cobras
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46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
There is no consistency - much depends on the backlog at the FRS as well as other slots available. As a former Marine Student Control Officer, I used to get my billets from the company grade helicopter monitor at HQMC and then, in consultation with the other HT Marine Student Control Officer, we would assign these on the spot. Generally, it went according to what was available, your grades, and your preference. Occasionally, we would slide some stuff - not so much a "quality spread" like at TBS but to prevent SNA's from being shafted with something they really did not want.
SNA's selections tend to boil down to two things: location or platform. If we can get you both that's great, however we do work hard to make sure you get at least one and therefore are not miserable. Most Marine students tend to want Cobras when they show up at the HT's but by the end of HT training that percentage has slid after the SNA's talk to the IP's. I would generally say that it is neck and neck between Cobras and 53's for the most popular - PhrogDriver might have some more up to date info.
As for the total number of slots: there are 14 CH-46E squadrons of 12 aircraft each, 6 squadrons of CH-53E's at 18 aircraft each, 3 (or 4?) squadrons of CH-53D's with about 12 aircraft, 6 squadrons of skids with about 18 Cobras and 9 Huey's each - the squadrons aircraft numbers are only an approximation. You can do the math.
SNA's selections tend to boil down to two things: location or platform. If we can get you both that's great, however we do work hard to make sure you get at least one and therefore are not miserable. Most Marine students tend to want Cobras when they show up at the HT's but by the end of HT training that percentage has slid after the SNA's talk to the IP's. I would generally say that it is neck and neck between Cobras and 53's for the most popular - PhrogDriver might have some more up to date info.
As for the total number of slots: there are 14 CH-46E squadrons of 12 aircraft each, 6 squadrons of CH-53E's at 18 aircraft each, 3 (or 4?) squadrons of CH-53D's with about 12 aircraft, 6 squadrons of skids with about 18 Cobras and 9 Huey's each - the squadrons aircraft numbers are only an approximation. You can do the math.
Concur, but we now go by a pretty strict rank order. Barring your wife having cancer, or something like that, you'll pick in order of class rank.
Okay, here's a slightly related question. When it comes to selection and "rank order" what is the average number of aboves for the squadrons. I'm in RIs right now and am just curious if there is a number out there.
Not that it really matters what the average is, I'm still going to keep on doing the best I can at learning but I'm just curious. And I'm pretty positive I'm speaking to people who are in the know with this subject.
Semper Fi,
Stormy
Not that it really matters what the average is, I'm still going to keep on doing the best I can at learning but I'm just curious. And I'm pretty positive I'm speaking to people who are in the know with this subject.
Semper Fi,
Stormy
well stormy,
if you're in RIs, you'll know that the # of aboves required to wing varies week by week, and on the squadron. in HT8, it's 17 aboves to get a 35 NSS...last i heard, a 35 NSS in HT18 was 25-ish.
i believe the average that a class wings with also varies. to say that 30 is the average is misleading, but it is a good number, regardless of the squadron. also, keep in mind that when you select, it will only include aboves for FAMS, TFAMS, BIS and RIs. (don't include cpts or htacs in that number)
30-40 net aboves overall (not including CPTs) is a good number...right now. it keeps going down. and with the new MPTS-it's a crapshoot.
semper
if you're in RIs, you'll know that the # of aboves required to wing varies week by week, and on the squadron. in HT8, it's 17 aboves to get a 35 NSS...last i heard, a 35 NSS in HT18 was 25-ish.
i believe the average that a class wings with also varies. to say that 30 is the average is misleading, but it is a good number, regardless of the squadron. also, keep in mind that when you select, it will only include aboves for FAMS, TFAMS, BIS and RIs. (don't include cpts or htacs in that number)
30-40 net aboves overall (not including CPTs) is a good number...right now. it keeps going down. and with the new MPTS-it's a crapshoot.
semper
Huey,
I know it varies with each class but I was just looking for an average. And that HTACs don't count but I hadn't heard a recent average. I hadn't heard anything recently. I'm the last week of the old sim style. They started MPTS this week and I started sims last week so I don't have to worry about that.
Thanks for the help on the last info you had.
Stormy
I know it varies with each class but I was just looking for an average. And that HTACs don't count but I hadn't heard a recent average. I hadn't heard anything recently. I'm the last week of the old sim style. They started MPTS this week and I started sims last week so I don't have to worry about that.
Thanks for the help on the last info you had.
Stormy
towbubba
boot 46 pilot
I know I am not there yet but I don't understand how IP's are scaring people from the Cobra pipeline? Anybody know why people don't want the huey? It will be my second choice because it's the only thing besides cobras with a pilot controlled weapon system and it's getting upgraded soon. What's a good reason SNA's change their mind about the cobra? Are there some weeks where there is no Cobra slots passed out? Is there a particular area of advanced that would let someone know they would be a better Cobra pilot than say a 53 or 46 pilot, you know like PA's and cruise forms is in primary? At least the jet draft is done.46Driver said:
IPs don't scare students from the skids. The problem is that not a lot of skid pilots choose to go back for IP duty. Also, a lot of Marines choose helos thinking Cobras are the end-all-be-all, but end up getting their eyes opened to the possibilities in assaults. After SNAs see what helos do and talk to IPs, they learn that putting Marines in zone is just as intense as putting rockets downrange.
Hueys are jacks-of-all-trades, masters of none. No offense to the hog drivers. To a small group of people, that makes it a perfect platform. To many others, it doesn't have the Cobra's "sexiness" or the whole squad of Marines in the back vibe, either. It's the odd man out. It does a lot of cool stuff, and has a FLIR that is unbeatable. On the other hand, they have to hang out with Cobra pilots!
There's no one portion of advanced that will tell you what platform is right for you. All Marine helos fly a LOT of form. RIs, BIs, there won't be much difference in the fleet. The limited low-level syllabus is also equally relevent to all helos. You really have to decide based on the mission you want to fly.
Hueys are jacks-of-all-trades, masters of none. No offense to the hog drivers. To a small group of people, that makes it a perfect platform. To many others, it doesn't have the Cobra's "sexiness" or the whole squad of Marines in the back vibe, either. It's the odd man out. It does a lot of cool stuff, and has a FLIR that is unbeatable. On the other hand, they have to hang out with Cobra pilots!
There's no one portion of advanced that will tell you what platform is right for you. All Marine helos fly a LOT of form. RIs, BIs, there won't be much difference in the fleet. The limited low-level syllabus is also equally relevent to all helos. You really have to decide based on the mission you want to fly.
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
towbubba said:
The IP's are not scaring the SNA's away from Cobras, rather letting them know what the fleet is like. You will get a "Preference Card" lecture about once a month where IP's from every community and location talk about the experiences: good, bad, and ugly.
For the Cobra community, it has a reputation (some would say well earned) for being much more uptight than the 46 or 53 community. You will see more of the "frustrated jet jocks" here than anywhere else in the helo community. Way more studying than other platforms. Think all of the studying you have done for flight school: double it for the next two years. Also, many students pick location first and platform second (i.e., its more important to get New River for the Med Floats than over what platform you will fly.)
Hueys? When you go out on a standard MEU float, Hueys generally do more command & control and VIP than anything else. We have the Cobras for ordnance but we need somebody to haul around the AMC (pilot in charge of the mission: Airborne Mission Commander) and the HUC (grunt in charge of the ground forces: Heliborne Unit Commander). These guys generally ride around in the Huey and direct the show from a few miles away at several thousand feet for radio reception. Like turn patterns? Then go Hueys. Occasionally the Hueys will carry ordnance but when loaded down they are significantly slower than the 46's, not to mention the 53's. (The 53's are by far the fastest helos we have - that may change with the new 4 bladed Cobra.) The Hueys do some fast roping and special ops stuff occasionally as well.
All of the tactical approaches and formation flights are more pertinent to the assault community than to the skids. We are the ones that have to buttonhook into a zone, in formation, at 200 ft and 120 knots, on NVG's to get the grunts either in or out of the zone. Meanwhile, the Hueys going round and round as the C & C bird or the Cobras are hovering in their Attack Positions.(The last paragraph is my opinion only - skid pilots might disagree
.) Gotta get back to studying for grad school. Good Luck with wahtever you pick.
towbubba
boot 46 pilot
As usual timely and informed responses. Thank you gentleman for your insight. Happy to hear about the preference card lectures. I think I received every answer I was looking for and it sounds like it basically comes down to this Golden Rule: You can't lose as long as you are flying any helo in the Marine Corps.
I don't like the idea of studying harder than I do now but it's worth it to be a Cobra pilot. Who knows maybe I will change at south park but I will always refer to the golden rule.
I don't like the idea of studying harder than I do now but it's worth it to be a Cobra pilot. Who knows maybe I will change at south park but I will always refer to the golden rule.
Q, it is great to go fast but driving a bus isn't all that sexy. As for the phrog pilots out there, dropping Marines in zone is great but you will always need an escort because you can't defend yourself that well. The Huey, on the other hand, is God's chariot! She may be slow but she is highly manueverable and can defend itself better than any other platform out there. We can also put Marines in the zone and a really tight zone at that! Yes, we do C&C and VIP runs, but someone has to do it and the grunts love us for it.
The skid community does have a reputation for eating there own and I have seen it done. You have to keep in mind though that we are flying aircraft that carry a large aray of weapons and you need to know their capabilities. If you don't know these then the other polits will smash your bag hard! We don't study all of the time but it is a serious business and you need to know your **** no matter what you fly.
The skid community does have a reputation for eating there own and I have seen it done. You have to keep in mind though that we are flying aircraft that carry a large aray of weapons and you need to know their capabilities. If you don't know these then the other polits will smash your bag hard! We don't study all of the time but it is a serious business and you need to know your **** no matter what you fly.
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