Some questions

[Spekkio]

I realize this is a Naval aviator forum, so you guys may not know the answer to the following questions. However, maybe you have access to someone who does. Regardless, I'm asking them here because, quite frankly, I don't expect my recruiter and the people I interact with on the VIP trip in 2 weeks to tell the complete truth. I haven't been able to find out information about this stuff via google/this site, so might as well try asking:

I'm kind of conflicted here: on the one hand, I really like the submarine mission and want to be a part of it. On the other hand, the stuff I've been hearing regarding the quality of life between surface ships and subs has been extremely disheartening. I realize that either path will entail a lot of work on my part, and that's not really the issue to me.

I was basically curious if any ex-submariners could tell me about some of the finer details regarding submarine duty, and the difference between life on a submarine vs. surface ship. For example, my uncle served as an enlisted nuke on one of the nuke cruisers before she got decommissioned in the mid 90s. He alerted me to the concept of "hot racking" and that SSBNs leave from home port, go out to sea for a few months, then come back to that same exact port. He said that SSNs travel with the fleet, but go under longer and have much less room. Is this still true today? I gotta say that this is a big thing for me; one of the perks of the Navy for me was travel. I would hate it to go underwater for a few months, only to come out in the exact spot I started. Speaking of which, how often do surface ships dock away from home port anyway? How much time do officers get to spend ashore when they do?

Then I read the recent "life while deployed" thread where it sounds like you NA/NFO guys are going on a 6-month long vacation when you deploy with 2-3 hour flight shifts thrown in. The 'stuff to bring' list includes, carpetting, Xboxes, laptops, 900 bottles of gatorade, and all sorts of other stuff. Does even half this stuff fit on a submarine?

Also, how do you guys stay in shape? Perhaps he was blowing smoke, but my recruiter mentioned that a couple of the quarters on his cruiser had weights/treadmills in them. Google searches have made mention that there is no such thing on submarines, but "they have the best food in the Navy." Great, so I just get fat for 6 months on a boat with tight space as it is?

My recruiter mentioned that you get to put in for your preference of home port and ship, so I have two questions: do Seawolf Class submarines, which are classified as SSNs, travel with the fleet, or do they behave more like SSBNs by staying under the arctic for a few months then returning to WA? How difficult is it to get a billet on one of those three boats considering they're the best subs in the Navy?

Any input on this stuff, and anything else you could add, would be greatly appreciated. I want to get the straight story, not the fluffy version I'm bound to get on the VIP tour. Oh, and when searching this site for information, all I could find was "omg don't go submarines, go pilot! Submarine/Surface nuclear officers 'eat their young!'" While that sentiment is understandable on this forum, it's not particularly useful information to me, so please refrain from repeating that stuff.

 

[schwarti]

There was a whole issue of Proceedings devoted to sub life a few months back. Another place to try might be warchop - it's a board for chops, yeah, but a surprising number of the guys there were or are on subs. They've talked about sub life before, and I'm sure if you asked they'd be more than happy to answer some questions.

Just to be clear - that's just what I've heard, and being only a wannabe, I can't confirm. Also, warchop has a much smaller community, and they're almost all O-3 or above - very few candidates and so on. They're really nice and helpful, just not usually as laid-back as AW is.

 

[CPENgunner]

Check out usnavyocs.com. They have a forum devoted to submarines and sub warfare. You may find useful info there. My only experience on a sub was a VIP tour also. It was interesting but enough for me to say no way to serving on subs...ever. Plus, bubbleheads are a different breed entirely.

 

[Schnugg]

Or www.bubbleheads.com

 

[red1323]

quite frankly, I don't expect my recruiter and the people I interact with on the VIP trip in 2 weeks to tell the complete truth.

Skepticism is cool and kudos to you for seeking as much varied advice as you can get but the officers leading the VIP trip are a valuable resource and shouldn't be disregarded. They don't want people running reactors who have been tricked into it. SWOs do eat their young.

 

[HH-60H]

My last job was three years in a submarine shop, so I can answer some of your questions.

I'm kind of conflicted here: on the one hand, I really like the submarine mission and want to be a part of it.

Unfortunately, you don't really know much about today's submarine missions. However, if you go SSN or "fast attack" it will be interesting and exciting. On the SSBN or "boomer" side, I have met several officers who felt it was less than rewarding. In fact, one guy volunteered for an IA because he felt like he hadn't contributed to the Navy during his JO SSBN tour. Boomer guys are generally ridiculed by their fast attack counterparts

He alerted me to the concept of "hot racking" and that SSBNs leave from home port, go out to sea for a few months, then come back to that same exact port. He said that SSNs travel with the fleet, but go under longer and have much less room. Is this still true today? I gotta say that this is a big thing for me; one of the perks of the Navy for me was travel. I would hate it to go underwater for a few months, only to come out in the exact spot I started. Speaking of which, how often do surface ships dock away from home port anyway? How much time do officers get to spend ashore when they do?

I would be surprised if officers hot racked, but I am sure it has happened. More likely as the new guy on board you would be assigned to the 9 man (on a LA) and not a 3 man stateroom.

SSBNs can do "port calls." I put that in quotes because generally they only go to other U.S. ports. We generally don't like to dock our strategic assets in foreign ports.

SSNs, depending on the security environment, can pull into ports around the world. I have plenty of fast attack buddies that have pulled into all the usual ports around the world.

Most ships, both surface and submarines, are on a watch rotation. Different ships seem to have different numbers of watch sections. The number of watch sections will determine how much time you have out in port. So, if there are 3 watch sections, you will spend every 3rd day on the ship.... if there are 4 sections, then every fourth day on the ship. How long the ship/submarine will remain in port is dependant on its schedule and the CO.

The 'stuff to bring' list includes, carpetting, Xboxes, laptops, 900 bottles of gatorade, and all sorts of other stuff. Does even half this stuff fit on a submarine?

No. The amount of personal space an officer has on a SSN, in a 3 man stateroom, is maybe 50% larger than what enlisted have on surface ships. Both of which are nothing compared to officer staterooms on surface ships. I am not too sure about SSBNs.

Also, how do you guys stay in shape? Perhaps he was blowing smoke, but my recruiter mentioned that a couple of the quarters on his cruiser had weights/treadmills in them. Google searches have made mention that there is no such thing on submarines, but "they have the best food in the Navy." Great, so I just get fat for 6 months on a boat with tight space as it is?

On the fast attack boats I have been on, and from talking to my buddies, most submarines have 2 or 3 exercise machines. They are stuck in various places. I can't speak to SSBNs.

My recruiter mentioned that you get to put in for your preference of home port and ship, so I have two questions: do Seawolf Class submarines, which are classified as SSNs, travel with the fleet, or do they behave more like SSBNs by staying under the arctic for a few months then returning to WA? How difficult is it to get a billet on one of those three boats considering they're the best subs in the Navy?

It depends what you mean by best. But, its just like getting jets out of primary, or hornets out of advanced.... if there are available billets, and if you have done well, you might get your first choice.

Keep in mind the selection process considers location and SSBN vs SSN. I forget when they put in the preferences and when they find out. But going SSBN is a real possibility and you don't know if that is where you are going until long into the training process and your commitment.

 

[haubby]

I can speak from my experiences serving on SSBN's.

Officers do not hotrack. JO's on their first patrol will have a rack in enlisted berthing (usually bunkroom 1 or 2) (on SSBN's all bunkrooms are 9 men berthing). For actual Officer berthing there are 3/2 man staterooms with 2/3 man staterooms. When inspectors/riders/vips embark, JO's who live in enlisted berthing will move to the CPO berthing.

Watchsections: First patrol you will spend all of it qualifying EOOW and EDO. Second patrol you will move forward (while still standing EOOW) and start on OOD and SDO quals.Depending on the number of qualified EOOW's and OOD's usually you are on a 3/4 watch rotation with an evening kickout.
I've seen anywhere from 14-18 months for officers to qualify ships (dolphins).

I'm a West Coast guy and you can expect to port in San Deigo, Hawaii and Ketchikan. I'm sure there is an East coast guy that can chime in on East coast ports for SSBN's

Officers on submarines work their butts off. Its not an easy life. You have to want it.

Now there are SSGN's (I was on the USS Georgia) its the best of both worlds (SSN/SSBN) You get the SSN missions with SSBN lifestyle.

If you want to talk to an officer qualfied in submarines, I'll PM you and get you in contact with some submarine qualified officers.

 

[Spekkio]

Keep in mind the selection process considers location and SSBN vs SSN. I forget when they put in the preferences and when they find out. But going SSBN is a real possibility and you don't know if that is where you are going until long into the training process and your commitment.

So how exactly does this work? Does you put in your preference for homeports, then put in preference for boat once they tell you where you got assigned? Or do you have to put in the preference for fast attack vs. boomer first, and then after that you are restricted to whatever ports have those boats?

My uncle mentioned that when he was in the service, he wanted to work out of Norfolk. He called some guy, whose title escapes my memory, to ask what was going on with the cruiser he was going to request, since Nuclear cruisers were currently being phased out. The guy told him that slots were open, so he got his 1st preferance. However, that is the enlisted, surface side of things, so I wanted to know if it was any different.

Just asking because if wikipedia is accurate, SSBNs dock in GA and WA, and neither of those places would make my top 5 top requests for home port. The part about the Seawolf thing was just out of random curiosity. I wouldn't go subs just because I want to be on one of 3 boats in the entire submarine fleet.

@haubby: that would be great

@All: thanks a ton for the info