USN Time to Bring Back the S-3 Viking?

[ChuckMK23]

A report on the merits of bringing The Hoover back into front line, CVW service is picking up traction - the issue being the perceived gap in outer zone ASW and deep strike capability - all centered in China dominance scenarios.

Makes for interesting reading (if nothing else) :

http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/u-s-navy-time-to-bring-back-the-s-3-viking/

and the two articles referenced in the blog post:
http://www.cnas.org/retreat-from-range#.VkEjgIRz3HN
http://www.hudson.org/research/1173...carrier-the-joint-force-and-high-end-conflict

 

[Brett327]

hard-hitting analysis by Dr. Jerry Hendrix

This concept rears its head every 6 months. It will never, ever happen.

 

[Pags]

I'm sure this conclusion was arrived at independently and without any funding from LockMart.

 

[picklesuit]

I think this is the appropriate reaction...

 

[Flash]

I think it is a great idea, preferably as a KS-3, but I doubt it happens. There was even a serious proposal briefed up to the Navy Staff/Air Boss a few years ago and it didn't get enough traction, don't think it will change unfortunately.

 

[jmcquate]

To bring the airframes out of AMARK, stand up a logistics pipeline, maintenance support, RAG pipeline, ect...ect...ect, well, you get my point. It's not that easy of a fix. Is fixed wing ASW really an asset that's needed? There may be better sub-surface assets available to a CBG.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Money required = non starter.

 

[wink]

It rears it head every 6 months because it is a solution to a problem (maybe not the best, just the obvious). Given the so called Asia pivot and South China Sea shenanigans, yes, organic fixed wing middle zone-outer zone ASW would be a great asset. No honest person believes retiring the Hoover was done because it had no place in the air wing. It was all about money. Besides ASW it would relieve some pointy nose guys from refueling. It would take on SSC/ISAR and sea strike in the low threat environment, freeing up fast movers to go feet dry. Bringing back the Viking is a very good idea. But sadly, you all are right. Will never happen. And air wing capability suffers for it.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I agree it's a good idea. But they'll put a buddy store on an F-35 before they'll actually do it. Actually, ASW is probably one of the things F-35 is supposed to do, along with percolate coffee, cure cancer, and use its jedi powers to defeat Darth Vader.

 

[wink]

Percolate coffee? For what it cost it ought to steam milk for your latte as well.

 

[jmcquate]

I agree it's a good idea. But they'll put a buddy store on an F-35 before they'll actually do it. Actually, ASW is probably one of the things F-35 is supposed to do, along with percolate coffee, cure cancer, and use its jedi powers to defeat Darth Vader.

Or a dipping Plopter with a hose and basket out the ass end.

 

[Recovering LSO]

With each month, quarter, year, decade that JSF continues to slide, the burden being placed upon the existing fleet will continue to mount. At this point someone could take a Monopoly (the board game) approach to this... How many hotels (JSFs) can I cash in for a handful of houses (S-3s)?

 

[Uncle Fester]

The Great Viking Revival doesn't fade out every six months because the Hoov wasn't a good jet, or because the idea doesn't have merit. The hangup is the cost and time involved in restoring all the infrastructure - training, manning, parts, sustainment, etc etc. Is it worth the start-up costs of bringing all that back for a 70's-era airplane? And where do we get that money? Bringing back the Hoov means taking money from something else, and unless we get a nostalgic former S-3 guy as Air Boss, the idea's never going anywhere.

Personally, I think it would be worth it, but I'm just an asshole reservist and nobody asked me.

 

[Beans]

You could throw the mission contents of a 60R (minus dipper) in a V-22 with an AW and NFO and have modular SV-22. Radar might not be so modular. The Navy's already getting them now... it's not impossible and makes more sense than a S-3.

 

[Renegade One]

The Viking "RAGNAR" concept is alive and well: "Remanufactured Aerial Gunship & Naval Aviation Refueler". In some circles, also called the Viking "Longship", due to the 10' fuselage plug insert (and other extensive structural mods) required to mount the essential add-ons:
1. The standard General Electric TF-34 turbofan jet engines (which powered the stock Viking variants) are being replaced with the brand new, highly derivative (and still secret) Jordan-Jumo-Daimler TF-200 liquid nitrogen-cooled Gandalf engines. Thrust vectoring in all attitudes/airspeeds/AOAs, and with (reportedly) the IR signature of a snow-blower.
2. Additionally, all of the standard external tanks and racks on the existing hard points will be replaced with permanent housings encapsulating both the Browning-Vickers 25 MM “Sky Sweeper” gatling guns or Webley-Oerlikon 60 MM “Hell Hammer” cannon systems for CAS and gunship interdiction missions.
3. Conformal tanks on the sides of the Longship fuselage, and probably on the top deck of the aircraft, will dramatically alter the external mold-line configuration of the aircraft, but are necessary to hold the required quantities of HV2 (High Volatility/High Viscosity) ultra high performance turbine fuel required by the TF-200s, as well as the standard JP-5 tankage to support the legacy aircraft refueling requirement.
3. Much of what's happening internally to the fuselage remains less certain, as are the missile programs thought to be in the works. First among these is still speculated to be a mix of the family of (still) "black" missile programs known only as "Terminators": specifically, the "Hell Hound", "Fell Beast" and "Night Warg" systems. All designed with a max weight limit of 250# (113.5 KG), this family of weapons, which can be loaded in any mixed configuration (on drop-down racks/rotary rails from torpedo bay station only), will be the first to truly achieve the long-sought concept of "I wish you were dead" missiles.
4. The two Lockheed-Martin prototype Longship aircraft (both in concurrent design and developmental test) are still confined to the Groom Lake Complex in Nevada and operating only at night under no more than waxing or waning gibbous moon illumination.