Top Dome

[JT Eagle]

Hello all,
My question, silly as it may be, is what exactly is Top Dome? What is taught there and who gets to go?

Yes, I have tried Google and there is very, very little out there. Not looking for anything classified, just a broad idea of the syllabus, how many crews go through it, how they are selected and what they become when they graduate, that sort of thing. How long is the class/course? Is it conducted alongside other courses e.g for fighter attack guys? Who are the instructors?

To paraphrase what I know and have found out, it is a post-grad AEW school along the lines of Topgun and it's at Fallon. There really is very little beyond that from open sources on the web.

JT

 

[VetteMuscle427]

NSAWC now does it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Strike_and_Air_Warfare_Center

 

[Brett327]

Pretty much every platform has a wepaons school of some sort. That's all "Top Dome" is.

Brett

 

[Uncle Fester]

Nobody calls it "Top Dome" anymore. E-2 guys go to two different weapons schools - the Top Gun Controller syllabus (some enlisted Aegis AICs also attend) and Carrier AEW Weapons School (CAEWWS). The emphasis at Top Gun, is of course, air-to-air, and it's run parallel to the fighter guys' course; we just learn the advanced stuff from the scope end of things.

CAEWWS teaches several different courses, but the big one is the Advanced Mission Commander Course (AMCC), which consists of two weeks of death-by-Powerpoint at Fallon and three weeks of simulators at Pt Mugu, CA. Like all weapons schools, it's essentially graduate-level education in fighting your airplane. The syllabus is a refresher and advanced education in tactics, systems and weapons system employment - i.e., how to make the dome work best. But the main purpose is teaching you how to be an instructor, in the classroom and in the airplane.

As far as who goes, newly-qual'ed CAPC's (pilots) and CICO's (FO's) who have at least a year left in the squadron. Timing has a lot to do with it, as do most things in the Navy. Your main purpose as an I-CICO or I-CAPC is training new guys, so the squadron sends people it'll get some use of. New dept heads go en route to their squadron, but it's just considered a TTP refresher for them, and they only attend the classwork, not the sims.

The instructors are LTs on their first shore tour. If CAEWWS buys off on you coming there as an instructor, you go through more training to become a Weapons and Tactics Instructor (WTI), do your shore tour at Fallon, then go back to a squadron as a squadron WTI for a Super-JO tour.

 

[Brett327]

Nobody calls it "Top Dome" anymore. E-2 guys go to two different weapons schools - the Top Gun Controller syllabus (some enlisted Aegis AICs also attend) and Carrier AEW Weapons School (CAEWWS). The emphasis at Top Gun, is of course, air-to-air, and it's run parallel to the fighter guys' course; we just learn the advanced stuff from the scope end of things.

CAEWWS teaches several different courses, but the big one is the Advanced Mission Commander Course (AMCC), which consists of two weeks of death-by-Powerpoint at Fallon and three weeks of simulators at Pt Mugu, CA. Like all weapons schools, it's essentially graduate-level education in fighting your airplane. The syllabus is a refresher and advanced education in tactics, systems and weapons system employment - i.e., how to make the dome work best. But the main purpose is teaching you how to be an instructor, in the classroom and in the airplane.

As far as who goes, newly-qual'ed CAPC's (pilots) and CICO's (FO's) who have at least a year left in the squadron. Timing has a lot to do with it, as do most things in the Navy. Your main purpose as an I-CICO or I-CAPC is training new guys, so the squadron sends people it'll get some use of. New dept heads go en route to their squadron, but it's just considered a TTP refresher for them, and they only attend the classwork, not the sims.

The instructors are LTs on their first shore tour. If CAEWWS buys off on you coming there as an instructor, you go through more training to become a Weapons and Tactics Instructor (WTI), do your shore tour at Fallon, then go back to a squadron as a squadron WTI for a Super-JO tour.

Interesting model. So you guys have first tour "instructors" as well as a Level V WTI? What level are your instructors at? Are they just Level III guys with an instructor designation or do they get a bump in ACTC level?

Brett

 

[Uncle Fester]

Interesting model. So you guys have first tour "instructors" as well as a Level V WTI? What level are your instructors at? Are they just Level III guys with an instructor designation or do they get a bump in ACTC level?

Brett

Yep. CAPC/CICO (Aircraft/Mission Commander) is the Level III qual, I-CICO/I-CAPC is Level IV. The squadron should have around a half-dozen each single- and double-anchor Level IVs, divided between the senior LTs and DHs, plus a Super-JO WTI.

They try to make all the DHs Level IVs, even if they weren't Level IVs as a JO...sometimes it takes wishing really, really hard, and it magically happens. By the book, the skipper can make anyone a Level IV - CAEWWS just makes recommendations - though the convention is going through the full AMCC course first.

CAEWWS wants qualified Level IIIs for AMCC, but more often than not, students are almost-but-not-quite Level IIIs...usually guys that have everything done but the letter from the skipper.

The E-2 community is still trying to make ACTC work for us. "If the square peg doesn't fit the round hole, just hit it harder" kind of thing. So they adapted some pre-existing quals and invented others. For us it runs -

Level I - Radar Officer/3P
Level II - Air Control Officer/2P
(Level 2.5 - P-CICO: essentially CICO U/I... sits center seat and runs the mission, but has to have a qual'ed CICO in the back with him)
Level III - CICO/CAPC
Level IV - I-CICO/I-CAPC
Level V - WTI

 

[HeyJoe]

The emphasis at Top Gun, is of course, air-to-air, and it's run parallel to the fighter guys' course; we just learn the advanced stuff from the scope end of things.

With departure of Tomcats and even before, it's become a Strike Fighter focus and more oriented to air-to-ground than air-to-air. I work with a former TOPGUN instructor (Hornet type) and he's sitting next to me in vehicle as I type so he's confirming this while we discuss it. He also says to clear up the relationship with NSAWC, Top Dome and TOPDUN moved to Fallon upon transfer of Miramar to USMC and folded under NSAWC. TOPGUN maintains individuality (patches and other traditions), became a Dept (N7) under NSAWC and Top Dome became N6. They share the same building separate from the main NSAWC building.

 

[Brett327]

With departure of Tomcats and even before, it's become a Strike Fighter focus and more oriented to air-to-ground than air-to-air. I work with a former TOPGUN instructor (Hornet type) and he's sitting next to me in vehicle as I type so he's confirming this while we discuss it. He also says to clear up the relationship with NSAWC, Top Dome and TOPDUN moved to Fallon upon transfer of Miramar to USMC and folded under NSAWC. TOPGUN maintains individuality (patches and other traditions), became a Dept (N7) under NSAWC and Top Dome became N6. They share the same building separate from the main NSAWC building.

Even the Prowler Weapons School is going to be moving down to NSAWC once the transition gets underway. Maybe someone will be really gay and suggest it be called TOPTRON.

Brett

 

[Uncle Fester]

Is the Hoover WS still around? Or have they disbanded?

Guess it makes sense to have all the weapons schools co-located. More better for melding of minds, training of air wings, and building of 100-lb super-secret pubs no one ever reads. CAEWWS is located at NASF and has "branch offices" with the Fleet squadrons in Norfolk and Pt Mugu. Is that how everyone else is doing it these days, too?

 

[whalepelt]

Is the Hoover WS still around? Or have they disbanded?

They were around as of this summer (I spent most of my 1/C cruise with them) but I believe they're gone by now.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Even the Prowler Weapons School is going to be moving down to NSAWC once the transition gets underway. Maybe someone will be really gay and suggest it be called TOPTRON.

Brett

Once the Growler takes over, you could call it Top Deuce.

 

[JT Eagle]

Interesting stuff - much more than I was able to dig up (including the Fallon Welcome Aboard booklet I thought I had around here somewhere...). I have one more question, was it called the Carrier AEW Weapons School and known as 'Top Dome' when it was at Miramar, or did CAEWS come into existence at Fallon and the 'Top Dome' name fade out?

Thanks everyone, particularly to Uncle Fester, for all the useful replies.

JT

 

[hscs]

More better for melding of minds, training of air wings, and building of 100-lb super-secret pubs no one ever reads. CAEWWS is located at NASF and has "branch offices" with the Fleet squadrons in Norfolk and Pt Mugu. Is that how everyone else is doing it these days, too?

This is what the helo bubbas are doing; although, I am trying to figure out who runs the ASW 'excellence' for the rotary wing types....

 

[MasterBates]

HC probably.

 

[HH-60H]

This is what the helo bubbas are doing; although, I am trying to figure out who runs the ASW 'excellence' for the rotary wing types....

Up until a year or two ago, SWTI included ASW and the other overwater stuff. I'm not sure what is going on now.