Vectored-Thrust Ducted Fan for SH-60

[Prashant Patel]

I've looked online and did a search on airwarriors for any info on what happened to the Vectored-Thrust ducted fan that Piasecki was trying to install in a YSH-60. Last I heard they were making good progress, but that info is over 2 years old now. If it's viable, I'd like to see it put on 60's in my career lifetime.

 

[Brett327]

I've looked online and did a search on airwarriors for any info on what happened to the Vectored-Thrust ducted fan that Piasecki was trying to install in a YSH-60. Last I heard they were making good progress, but that info is over 2 years old now. If it's viable, I'd like to see it put on 60's in my career lifetime.

What would the point be?

Brett

 

[phrogdriver]

Making the helo faster.

 

[Brett327]

Making the helo faster.

Marginally faster, but at what cost? I imagine that you'd still have retreating blade limitation issues to contend with.

Brett

 

[HH-60H]

For the uninformed, what is a Vector-Thrust ducted fan?
And who is Piasecki?

 

[phrogdriver]

Picture a ducted fan. Now picture it in place of a tail rotor. At low speeds, when countertorque is needed, the thrust is pushed to the side. As airspeed increases and less countertorque is req'd, the thrust is directed backwards to help push the helo. The speed increase is borderline, but it can get one close to 200 knots.

Piasecki is a helicopter company. It used to be one of the big manufacturers, but now it mostly makes components.

 

[gregsivers]

Um, yeah, I wouldn't count on it man. What with the new 60R and S upgrades coming on line.

 

[Brett327]

Um, yeah, I wouldn't count on it man. What with the new 60R and S upgrades coming on line.

Concur. Proven airframe w/o any significant TR issues. Hard to justify the cost I would think.

Brett

 

[ghost]

Concur. Proven airframe w/o any significant TR issues. Hard to justify the cost I would think.

Brett

Especially since the current T/R provides 2.5% of the lift and helps counter the aft CG nature of the -60.

 

[ChuckMK23]

For the uninformed, what is a Vector-Thrust ducted fan?
And who is Piasecki?

As a helo guy you need to know who Frank Piasecki is. Do a wiki search. He invented the Tandem rotor helicopter and was the main advocate for the Naval use of rotary wing aviation. He's a legend. Right there and equal to Igor. Period. End of discussion. Before developing the tandem helicopters for which he is known, Frank Piasecki built and flew the PV-2 single-rotor craft in 1943. A result of three years' research by his company, the P-V Engineering Forum, it had a three-bladed, 25-foot (7.6-meter) rotor and was 22 feet (6.7 meters) long.

His accomplishments are remarkable. Piasecki aircraft produced such famous workhorses as the HUP and the H-21

and

http://www.aerofiles.com/pia-H21.jpg

His ducted fan research on rotorcraft is extraordinary - ask any TPS grad and they will tell you it's doable. It's just getting past conventional thinking of Sikorsky and Bell/Boeing.

Piasecki aircraft became Vertol corp - the inventor of the CH-46 and CH-47 series. Vertol was later acquired by Boeing and became Boeing Helicopters.

 

[Prashant Patel]

Here's an interesting, albeit old, article about VTDP if anybody wants to check it out click here

 

[Brett327]

Again, while interesting from a theoretical POV, there is no way in hell the Navy is going to buy something like that to retrofit its -60s. If they were going to use such a technology, it would be incorporated into a future design.

Brett

 

[ChuckMK23]

Again, while interesting from a theoretical POV, there is no way in hell the Navy is going to buy something like that to retrofit its -60s. If they were going to use such a technology, it would be incorporated into a future design.

Brett

AGree - I think between NAVAIR and ONR, they wantto preserve the brain-trust on these technologies and just further the research. Which is a worthy thing to spend budget dollars on.

I doubt you would ever see this in production anytime soon.

 

[PU Grad]

My take on it is:

The Vectored-Thrust Ducted Fan wouldn't produce all that good of a benefit on an already built aircraft. For it to truly be effective it would need to be designed on a completely new platform so that it could be optimized to fly at a faster speed. I.E. The X-wing concepts and whatever the hell Boeing is looking into.

Added to that, the strike at Sikorsky would keep lots of new (bizare) ideas from coming to light. Plus it has to get funded from somewhere. Sikorsky is putting similar kind of funding into the X-Wing project. So it comes down to what will the gov't pay for and what can the gov't be convinced of.


My 2 centences.

Kobyra