Woman + Subs

[RedFive]

Yes, yes I know this has been covered here ad nauseum. Somebody even posted an April Fools thread about it last year. Apparently it's for real this time. I heard about this from an old WW2 vet I was talking to in Walmart yesterday and I don't think anybody posted it up here yet.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...09/25/AR2009092503385.html?hpid=moreheadlines

 

[Clux4]

Well, what is your opinion or are you just reporting news we already know about?

 

[desertoasis]

I wonder how that will go. I'm all for it if they can make it work, but it seems to me that it would be a logistical nightmare, or at least force people to shed the boundaries of privacy that surface crews have.

Who knows, maybe it will all work out just fine.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Huh. I'll believe it when it happens. Gender politics aside, it'd be tough to refit the fast-attacks with seperate berthing and heads. Boomers/SSGNs have some more room to work with.

 

[e6bflyer]

I don't think it will ever happen and hope that it doesn't. There are some places women just don't belong, and subs are one of them.

 

[Jim123]

I'm gonna threadjack this for a minute. Any time I hear someone beating the retention drum, I think of how often I hear about how the military is supposedly detached from society because so few people in the general population have served in the military. Well if everyone who joins up "stays in for 20" then we'll have even fewer vets in our country, soooo that's why I think retention for retention's sake is a narrow-minded objective. (Yeah, I "get" that it costs money to train people for the job and the concept of a highly skilled all-volunteer force vs low skilled conscripts.) If somebody honorably serves out their 4, 5, 8, whatever commitment on a ship, airplane, submarine, desk, whatever and gets out to work somewhere else, raise children, whatever, then OK.

I do like that one of the notions in this article is a recruitment (vice retention) based approach to "manning." (Pardon the pun.)

Just MHO.

 

[scoober78]

I don't think it will ever happen and hope that it doesn't. There are some places women just don't belong, and subs are one of them.

Patently ridiculous. Period.

Continuing to ask the question "if" and not asking the question "what will this look like" is foolish, just as it was foolish to ask whether women would be allowed on combat surface ships, combat aircraft...just as it was foolish to ask whether blacks would be allowed to be anything other than stewards...just as it was ridiculous....

Come on. Challenges? Absolutely. Don't belong? Unconscionable.

 

[Swanee]

A good friend of mine is a prior nuke turned E-2 NFO. She spent pretty much all of her enlisted time as an instructor, teaching how to run the back half of a sub. She seemed to think that she could handle herself with the guys just fine.

Do we really need separate berthings and heads?! How about a curtain and a lock on the hatch?

 

[Pags]

I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen, all in the name of diversity of course.

May god have mercy on the first women to go on board the subs.

 

[phrogdriver]

Separate heads? No. Separate berthing? Absolutely.

Obviously physical strength isn't an issue here, as it would be in say, SEALS. I mean, have you looked at any submariners lately?

However, equating this with racial equality is silly. There are actual logistical concerns here. Is the potential gain in quality people worth the money and effort to integrate these boats?

 

[JTS11]

Patently ridiculous. Period.

Continuing to ask the question "if" and not asking the question "what will this look like" is foolish, just as it was foolish to ask whether women would be allowed on combat surface ships, combat aircraft...just as it was foolish to ask whether blacks would be allowed to be anything other than stewards...just as it was ridiculous....

Come on. Challenges? Absolutely. Don't belong? Unconscionable.

Let's also stop the discrimination with regards to the selective service sign-up. Women should be allowed to register for the draft. Then we will all be truly equal, and we will have a more perfect union.

 

[KBayDog]

Let's also stop the discrimination with regards to the selective service sign-up. Women should be allowed to register for the draft. Then we will all be truly equal, and we will have a more perfect union.

Let's not stop there! I'm sick and tired of the discrimination that exists in sports. Why should females have their own leagues?

Men should be allowed to compete in the LPGA, WNBA, etc. Then, and only then, will we be equal.

 

[Brett327]

The article (and the OP) make it sound like this "change" is already in the works. All the article talks about was how CNO thinks it should change. He doesn't make that policy, and while he probably has the ear of those who do, I suspect he is much less likely to pursue such changes when he's not testifying in public before congress. IMO, he said he thinks it should change because that's the PC thing to say in a public forum, but it will result in no action to actually change the policy.

Brett

 

[PropAddict]

Men should be allowed to compete in the LPGA, WNBA, etc. Then, and only then, will we be equal.

No way, the money is wayyy better in the PGA and NBA, etc.

Break, break.

Back on topic: I doubt it will be as tough as it all sounds. It's still going to be a volunteer community, and there are many women who just "want to be submariners." They'll have no issue with coed heads, or the close quarters berthing. Just watch. Think GI Jane, just a little chunkier, dorkier, and with hair.

Heck, women have been going down on that deep submergence research vessel for years, with no ill-effects. The big issue is the entrenched mentality of the community. My sub cruise led me to believe that subs are essentially a floating frat house, just, you know, without the alcohol. Heck, during one of the big PC-crackdowns at USN, I remember ADM Leidig telling us that the only place it was acceptable to utter the word "WUBA" was in a sub under the sea. Sub life sucks. Having to mind one's p's and Q's because there is mixed company aboard, well, it could only make it that much worse.

 

[scoolbubba]

Heck, during one of the big PC-crackdowns at USN, I remember ADM Leidig telling us that the only place it was acceptable to utter the word "WUBA" was in a sub under the sea.

So you're saying mando PT at 30 is NOT the place to call out WUBA and Lobsters left and right? Dammit. Sensitivity training here I come.