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You just can't make this stuff up!!!

S

SkywardET

Contrarian
Though it has been said that one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, this is just ridiculous.
 
HuggyU2

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
That was a close one! Thank goodness they didn't declare the Dept of Air Force or the Dept of Navy as a terrorist organization. I was concerned.
 
Mumbles

Mumbles

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
Not nearly as infuriating as seeing a few leftist radical twits walking on the mall in DC with "Stop the War Against Iran" (sic) placards on Saturday afternoon. I went down to try to catch Michael Beschloss, Jeff Shaara and Ken Burns at the book fair.... but I ended up going to ESPN zone to watch foozball.
 
joshmf

joshmf

Member
I don't want to open myself up to attacks here, and I know this is entirely a stunt being pulled by Iran for attention, but I think this is a good opportunity to consider why the CIA and Army could be considered terrorist organizations. Although I have no first-hand knowledge concerning this, neither organization has a squeeky-clean history. There is certainly a lot of evidence that the CIA has engaged in actions that could be labeled as terrorist acts. Do I supprt the goals of the CIA? Absolutely, but we need to consider what actions are acceptable for our country to engage in. If we accept the premise that everything is acceptable in terms of national defense, then we need to reconsider the idea that anyone labeled as a terrorist is inherently different from us. I'll let people respond, and not belabor the point, but the world is a lot greyer then some assert.
 
FLYTPAY

FLYTPAY

Pro-Rec Fighter Pilot
pilot
None
joshmf said:
I don't want to open myself up to attacks here, and I know this is entirely a stunt being pulled by Iran for attention, but I think this is a good opportunity to consider why the CIA and Army could be considered terrorist organizations. Although I have no first-hand knowledge concerning this, neither organization has a squeeky-clean history. There is certainly a lot of evidence that the CIA has engaged in actions that could be labeled as terrorist acts. Do I supprt the goals of the CIA? Absolutely, but we need to consider what actions are acceptable for our country to engage in. If we accept the premise that everything is acceptable in terms of national defense, then we need to reconsider the idea that anyone labeled as a terrorist is inherently different from us. I'll let people respond, and not belabor the point, but the world is a lot greyer then some assert.
Click to expand...
Terrorism in the modern sense is violence or other harmful acts committed against civilians for political or other ideological goals. Most definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear or "terror", are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or utterly disregard the safety of non-combatants.

The US does not "target" non-combatants. Remember that there is a distinction that is not understood by most people between a lawful combatant and an unlawful combatant. Lawful combatants, those that wear the uniform and are under the discipline of a soverign nation's military, have Geneva Convention rights. Everyone else who takes up arms, is not a lawful combatant and therefore is not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention. I would suggest doing some research before going into an interview since you are a former Marine and hopeful Naval Officer. If I was the interviewer and you said what you did in the above quote, I would deny an endorsement for commission.
 
raptor10

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
I don't believe that he is saying that the Army or the CIA are terrorist organizations, but that they have done things that are good, that were questionable and things that were flat out illegal, and that we can take this time to use on what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable behavior for safeguarding the most important American institution: our Constitution.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Navy of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
Click to expand...
 
joshmf

joshmf

Member
FLYTPAY said:
Terrorism in the modern sense is violence or other harmful acts committed against civilians for political or other ideological goals. Most definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear or "terror", are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or utterly disregard the safety of non-combatants.

The US does not "target" non-combatants. Remember that there is a distinction that is not understood by most people between a lawful combatant and an unlawful combatant. Lawful combatants, those that wear the uniform and are under the discipline of a soverign nation's military, have Geneva Convention rights. Everyone else who takes up arms, is not a lawful combatant and therefore is not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention. I would suggest doing some research before going into an interview since you are a former Marine and hopeful Naval Officer. If I was the interviewer and you said what you did in the above quote, I would deny an endorsement for commission.
Click to expand...

I disagree with the point that the US does not "target" non-combatents. I understand that inadvertant collateral damage can not be considered as terrorist acts. But as some recent legal cases have made clear, US forces do target individuals known to be non-combatents. In two tours in Iraq, I witnessed some of this. I also think that rounding up people and carting them off to a prison on the other side of the world, without recourse to legal protections, is done in part to terrorize a population. I also think that the US Army training insurgents to forment a revolution so that the US can influence the resulting government is basically the same as what Iran is supposedly trying to do in Iraq.

All that said, I'm fine with our government carrying out such questionable actions, if there is a need. I do think that national defense merits extreme action in extreme cases. I just wanted to make the point that an informed citizenry needs to be aware of what it government does, and not fall into a state of blind acquiesence. We don't live in Iran, and I don't want to let my country slide into that kind of authoritarian regime.

On a personal note, I focused on international conflict and relations in college (which is very popular nowadays,) and have done my share of research.
 
joshmf

joshmf

Member
raptor10 said:
Never mind I retract my previous statement...
Click to expand...


No, I think you're right. I was just trying to provoke a little debate on what people considered acceptable, and to get away from the black and white idea of what a terrorist is. I didn't mean to accuse Pfc. Schmuckatelli of being a terrorist.
 
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