Flight Surgeons - what exactly is their scope in terms of flying?

[bakewipa]

Short bit of background for this question: I created an account on this forum just over three years ago with the goal of becoming a pilot through the OCS route right after college. I took the ASTB and put together a decent package for submission, only to nix it at the last minute and apply to medical school instead. I'm now a medical student, but I'm kind of beginning to regret not taking the pilot route. You can go to medical school at any age, but being a pilot is more or less something you do while you're young, and it's much harder to fly after medical school than it is to go to medical school after flying.

I did join the military (specifically the Navy) as a medical student, so I've been looking into any way I can still fly even though I didn't go down the pilot route. The main thing I've heard about in this regard is flight surgery, and though I've read a lot about it and talked to current and former flight surgeons, I'm interested in the perspective of aviators rather than doctors. How much do the flight surgeons in your squadrons usually fly? Do you let them at the controls, or are they just passengers? Do you think I could get a decent sense of military aviation and how it feels to fly military aircraft by being a flight surgeon, or is it just too uninvolved?

I also know of the dual designator program which would suit my goals perfectly, but everything I've read and heard about this makes it seem like it's basically impossible to get this designation (though I'd be happy to be proven wrong).

Anything else you could share about flight surgeons and their role in military aviation would be appreciated. I've basically only heard from doctors about this stuff, so it would be great to get input from military pilots themselves. I'm hoping I haven't completely killed my chances of flying in the military by going to medical school, but I'm willing to accept the harsh truth if necessary.

 

[insanebikerboy]

My experience in helicopters was that flight surgeons would occasionally ride in back to get their minimum flight time to keep flight pay. I did fly with one that was actually pretty good, while she didn’t qualify as a full up crewman she was savvy and augmented the crew really well and could actually ‘speak’ flying. That flight surgeon actually ended up earning a strike/flight air medal with us because she had to fly as a casevac doc on one desert deployment, but that’s rare.

As for flying, I saw the flight doc at the controls maybe 2-3 times in 15 years, and those were for a few laps around the pattern or some low hovering work.

Flight docs do get some stick time in flight school but once to the squadron it’s usually only a few hours a month in back.

 

[MIDNJAC]

In VFA, specifically in an F squadron (obviously), we probably flew them once a month while ashore, and maybe 1-2x a month if underway. We don't have dual control aircraft in operational squadrons, so they were basically just passengers with no duties, but good conversation. Especially on a 2+ hr tanker flight hanging out overhead the ship in the middle of nowhere. We didn't ever take them "in country"/combat, but I do distinctly remember taking one of our docs up while leading a division (4-ship) defensive counter-air (DCA) training event. It was very much not the chill, low G/straight and level, currency flight he was used to. To his credit, he did just fine, albeit with a lot of questions along the lines of "what is even happening right now?"

 

[croakerfish]

This will depend on the individual flight doc's interest level, the amount of flexibility he/she has with getting out of the clinic, and the comfort level of the squadron CO. Don't count on doing much more than the minimum to keep flight pay, which IIRC is about 10 hours a year. At least for helos, the flight doc is a Qualified Observer, so there are specific limitations on what kind of flights they can ride up front for.

 

[ChuckMK23]

It was the norm for FS to fly left seat in the '46 monthly, day vfr only. Later when I was an IP in the HT's, I realized just how difficult it was to get a FS where they could just consistently manipulate the controls. One XC with a student FS in the TH-57 in order to just get us out of the chocks and enroute, I ended up getting in the right seat just so the checklists did not take an hour....


The AF does a very minimal flight syllabus for FS - doing 20 hours in a SR22 with a contract flight training provider here at WPAFB.

 

[HuggyU2]

The AF does a very minimal flight syllabus for FS - doing 20 hours in a SR22 with a contract flight training provider here at WPAFB.

One of the IP's is a retired 2-star U-2 pilot, and a great American. Tell him hi if you know him, Chuck.

 

[taxi1]

I’ve seen student pilots in the navy that have an MD.

In the training command, we would take up our FS quite often. A Formation chase flight was ideal, I’d give it to the FS chock to chock if he could hang. Same for a lead-safe flight to the carrier.

But this was last century. ?

 

[FlightDocDan]

Flying experience as a Naval Flight Surgeon vary significantly and depend on individual's motivation to fly, aircraft platform you have access to, aircraft availability, and scheduling (both flight schedule and clinic demand).

There are far more pilots out there than flight docs. Probably more pilots will tell you they have never flown with docs than those who have.

Outside of initial training time (flight surgeon course at Pensacola), many docs won't fly at the controls unless you have access to aircraft with dual controls and qualified instructor pilot able to fly "solo" to take you up flying. More likely to have that experience if you are Flight Doc at one of the training air wings than operational squadrons.

To keep your flight pay, you only need 48 hours/year of flying time (either at the controls in the cockpit OR in the back as special crew). Most should be able to reach that minimum with some effort. Getting pilot time and going beyond that minimum req takes alot more effort.

I logged about 150 hours of flying time (90 hours of pilot time + 60 hours of crew time) in my 2 years as Training Air Wing Flight Doc and I have flown all Navy Trainer aircrafts (T-6B single engine plane, TH-57 helicopter, T-44C multi-engine fixed wing, and T-45 jet trainer). My Flight Surgeon colleague at Jet Training Squadron logged a bit more flight time since there were more open back seat available and got to do cat shot and catch on a carrier.

You definitely should've done flight school first. Higher chance and much easier process than trying to do AMDD... but can't hurt to apply and see, just gotta plan it out right.