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War in Israel

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@Random8145 , I think you’re letting your strong opinions against Hamas and Palestinians in general cloud your objectivity. Your take on the situation in Israel is so one-sided and blind to history that I don’t even know where to begin. To say nothing of your assertion that apparently native Americans are no longer mistreated by the white man, so everything is hunky dory here in the USA. There are several tribes who would like a word like a with you on that.

While I agree Hamas stands for horrible inhuman actions and needs to be wiped out, that should be done at a minimum of civilian casualties. Understanding the history that has led (and will likely continue to lead) us to this point is critical to changing things for the better.
 
With their misfired rocket, Hamas sure turned lemons into info-warfare lemonade. Give them points for playing the game.
 
taxi1 said:
With their misfired rocket, Hamas sure turned lemons into info-warfare lemonade. Give them points for playing the game.
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Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!!

Related note: I've had to chuckle at getting advertised a series of youtube vids with titles like "Deep Intel on the Amphibious Ready Group Near The War" by an expert named Ward Carroll... I guess there haven't been any NTSB crash reports coming out lately and he has to keep his viewers satisfied. If I was a betting man I'm thinking he's just doing a dramatic recitation of the ARG/MEU wikipedia page, but don't want to give him the $0.03 to confirm.
 
Notanaviator said:
..."Deep Intel on the Amphibious Ready Group Near The War" by an expert named Ward Carroll... I guess there haven't been any NTSB crash reports coming out lately and he has to keep his viewers satisfied...
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The Deep Intel I know is that Harrier pilots need to check their water switches on final. The ship's crew and embarked Marines will squabblle over Blue/Green gym hours. The ship's chaplain will annoy all aboard every night on the 1MC. ?

That's all the Intel I have...and it's non-monetized.
 
Random8145 said:
To a good degree, yes. It's not like they were mass slaughtered like the Eastern European and Russian peoples were by the Nazis. To have the level of maniacal hatred they have, and to have rejected such extensive peace offers, shows an EXTREME degree of intolerance. Again, we're not even talking the original generation who experienced being moved, we're talking multiple generations down. To maintain such hatred and refusal to make nice is nuts.


What white man is mistreating the Palestinians? All the "white" nations that are liberal democracies seem to care a lot about the Palestinians. It is the Palestinians' own leadership and fellow surrounding Arab nations that seem not to care about their plight one bit.

When the Irish were fighting the British, the IRA was condemned for its actions. But you don't get such global condemnation, other than as a formality, of those Palestinians that commit acts of terrorism.
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First off, your level of ignorance on this is surprising given how much you are pontificating on it. We are NOT talking about multiple generations down. There are probably Palestinians alive today who were driven from their homes in 1948. That was 75 years ago. When Arafat declined the treaty you have referenced in 2000, the conflict was a short 52 years old... Arafat was 19 when the Palestinians were driven out, an adult. It was his generation, not his ancestors.

Even today, every Palestinian in Gaza has grown up without freedoms to travel, move, visit their ancestors graves or receive their inheritance, improve their lives, etc. This isn't ancient history.. it's the present.

I see a trend in you, though. You don't understand Palestinian actions, so you conclude they are illogical. You don't understand the (obvious) differences between the Irish situation vs Israel, so you conclude the world's response is illogical. You don't understand the difference between the difference between the Native Americans vs Palestinians, so you conclude they're illogical. On and on.

If everyone is acting illogically but you, then perhaps you are the problem. If you want to understand a problem, then try to understand it until you do... don't just write it off as illogical and think everyone is crazy but you.
 
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Mirage said:
We are NOT talking about multiple generations down. There are probably Palestinians alive today who were driven from their homes in 1948.
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There are still survivors of the holocaust living in Israel, so for sure Palestinians who were pushed out.
 
Random8145 said:
The Native Americans kept fighting while they were being treated very poorly by the white man. Since then, they've stopped. Ireland was oppressed by the British but no one supported the Irish fighting the British with brutality, for example the IRA.
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As a resident of Boston I can tell you that, in fact, many Americans did support the IRA's armed struggle against the British: https://www.csmonitor.com/1981/0827/082761.html is one of many, many sources.

We (i.e. Americans) even sent them materiel. They stopped a ship from Boston which was carrying 7 tons of arms!
 
sevenhelmet said:
I wonder if they'll take out the launch sites in Yemen, as well.
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What do Yemen, Iran, and Hamas all have in common?

Our leaders keep sending them our money nearly every year.

Biden about to ask for $100 billion more in foreign hand outs. That's enough to increase the salary of every teacher in America by $100,000 each year for 3.5 years. Or double their salaries for nearly 7 years, and actually put a premium on educators, pull people out of poverty, and make that money back in the long term.

But hey, I'm sure financing a foreverwar between Israel and Arabs and securing European defense so our wealthy friends there don't have to is a better way to spend it.
 
Mirage said:
Biden about to ask for $100 billion more in foreign hand outs.
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No, he is going to ask for military aid dollars to support our allies that are fighting our enemies at no risk to us.

Go for a drive through North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, and Colorado, and marvel at all of the nuclear weapons stored in silos in farmer's fields, at great cost. Guess who they are deterring?

Whatever we can do to degrade them...
 
sevenhelmet said:
@Random8145 , I think you’re letting your strong opinions against Hamas and Palestinians in general cloud your objectivity. Your take on the situation in Israel is so one-sided and blind to history that I don’t even know where to begin. To say nothing of your assertion that apparently native Americans are no longer mistreated by the white man, so everything is hunky dory here in the USA. There are several tribes who would like a word like a with you on that.
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There are no tribes enslaved or having their rights withheld in this country I am pretty sure, so which tribes are you referring to? As for Israel, my take is just an observation of the history. What part do you disagree with?
sevenhelmet said:
While I agree Hamas stands for horrible inhuman actions and needs to be wiped out, that should be done at a minimum of civilian casualties. Understanding the history that has led (and will likely continue to lead) us to this point is critical to changing things for the better.
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I agree Hamas should be wiped out with a minimum of civilian casualties.
 
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Mirage said:
First off, your level of ignorance on this is surprising given how much you are pontificating on it. We are NOT talking about multiple generations down. There are probably Palestinians alive today who were driven from their homes in 1948. That was 75 years ago. When Arafat declined the treaty you have referenced in 2000, the conflict was a short 52 years old... Arafat was 19 when the Palestinians were driven out, an adult. It was his generation, not his ancestors.
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So what you're saying is these people would rather make war and engage in terrorism over having been displaced many years ago (or their grandparents/parents having been displaced) as opposed to seek peaceful relations that could lead to much better outcomes for they and their children. So Arafat was 19 at the time. So he'd rather his people continue to suffer than make a better life for them.
Mirage said:
Even today, every Palestinian in Gaza has grown up without freedoms to travel, move, visit their ancestors graves or receive their inheritance, improve their lives, etc. This isn't ancient history.. it's the present.
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Yes, and much of that is the fault of the leadership they elect into power. If a Palestinian state had been created, I highly doubt Israel would prevent them from visiting their ancestors' graves.
Mirage said:
I see a trend in you, though. You don't understand Palestinian actions, so you conclude they are illogical. You don't understand the (obvious) differences between the Irish situation vs Israel, so you conclude the world's response is illogical. You don't understand the difference between the difference between the Native Americans vs Palestinians, so you conclude they're illogical. On and on.
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They're illogical to a degree, because a lot of them are unfortunately brainwashed. Their behavior though, and especially that of their leadership, in light of what has been offered to them, amounts to ultimately illogical.

The main difference with the world's response amounts to anti-Semitism, as I've outlined in their lackluster concern for human rights violations elsewhere..
Mirage said:
If everyone is acting illogically but you, then perhaps you are the problem. If you want to understand a problem, then try to understand it until you do... don't just write it off as illogical and think everyone is crazy but you.
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Or, most of the rest of the world is just illogical on this situation. The U.S. is the sole outlier on a lot of positions in the world. For example, on gun rights, were totally illogical and nutty to most of the rest of the world (and most of the rest of the world's position on that issue is wrong IMO).
 
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