Just my 2 cents of perception. The Marines were happy up in Tustin and El Toro. Hearing the stories of misery from Lemoore seems to back up your comments that it was an 'own goal'...but I'm sure there were reasons and stuff.
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Hornet vs F35
- Thread starter blackngold
- Start date
As someone who actually has read both books, I’d love to hear what you think either book provides in terms of changing how we fight at sea. I can see a tenuous connection with Antal, but it’s thin based on it being focused on a very geographically constrained battlespace…and it’s already superseded by real world updates in Ukraine. Krepinevich wasn’t something that’d be out of place in a basic JPME class…nothing earth shattering.
Or what technologies you think are being missed by the various efforts currently underway by the Navy to modernize and leverage emerging technology…or to adapt to the democratization of technology. Like, literally anything specific or substantial, if you’re so convinced they’re doing everything wrong.
Naval warfare, particularly blue water, is very different from land warfare.
I wasn't going to add it because it's been an epic fail but the capability will eventually be filled. I should've been clearer. The other 3 (4 in the right setting) I'll stand by though.
Like Big Red, I'm curious what widely available technologies out there make CVNs obsolete for blue water ops.
This discussion makes me seriously question the validity of the current curriculum Command and Staff PME follows because it has to remain unclassified.
If the Pentagon really wanted to train field grade officers on joint and combined operations in the real world you'd have it taught at the secret level, with some topics at the TS/SCI level as necessary.
If the Pentagon really wanted to train field grade officers on joint and combined operations in the real world you'd have it taught at the secret level, with some topics at the TS/SCI level as necessary.
100%. Or from a practical perspective at least have a classified top off. I actually found USAF C&S not completely worthless (looking at you EWS) even with unclass limitations, but the discussion posts quickly got a little too close to SCIF chicken than they probably should have (another reason there should be a classified option).
On another practical level, TS is probably a bridge too far for broad stroke PME. A very large amount of Os don’t rate one.
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ACSC- "plan an unclass operation to kick China out of the SCS"
Me- "uh... Eliminate A2AD threats, establish air dominance, send in the surface ships and Marines to take islands and establish and defend Maritime lines of effort that enable freedom of navigation to support logistics while also having lines of operations against the CCP- and hope Taiwan, Japan and Korea can hold their own while we get our shit together."
ACSC- "You didn't use specifics, but the medical officer said that they would convince China to back off with a strongly worded email and non kinetic actions."
Me- "well, this is unclass so I get to use fairy dust and moon beams."
The amount of Officers who have to take ACSC but don't need it is mind boggling. And you're right, most of them don't need a security clearance.
If it makes you feel any better, this guy was an adjunct professor at MCWAR when I was in. Never did EWS (somehow promoted), but did remote C&S (mind numbing)
Meh. You don't need to be in a fully-informed environment to learn the planning process. You do need to be in a fully-informed environment to do actual planning.
I have some thoughts, and I’ll make them concise for you soon. Not dodging your question, but there are many facets to the issues and they’re nuanced. I’ll attempt to condense them and had a long post written out, but realized it was way too long. I’d prefer to just get to the main points.
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Don't be jelly that I spent 22 months there before you ever met me. Coulda been you too! lol
I never knew this angst while outbound on the Yuma route from NKX. We all probably crossed paths at some point though.
Yeah I bet we did. I probably waited at the hold short for your shitter to fly the SWOLF at 36 knots
Never heard of a SWOLF. We had more gentlemanly terms for VFR course rules routes. "Fairway Route" is where you get to finish up your French Press brew by the time you FAGs deconflict overhead from us on a weird IFR plan, and then bang a right after a leisurely view of Torrey Pines. I'd then pop a healthy dip in for the transit up to Pendleton.Yeah I bet we did. I probably waited at the hold short for your shitter to fly the SWOLF at 36 knots
