Wear of the khaki/equivalent uniform

[nittany03]

I think the MATSG-22 Marines have been on to something for some time as they all come to work in civies and change at the office. I think that sucks but it is a sollution for most uniform out in town problems.

Semper Fi,
usmcecho4

This is a personal pet peeve of mine, and if the uniform regs are driving people to do it, then IMO something is wrong. You should be proud to be in the US Military, and the whole civvies to work thing comes across as "well, I'm only going to wear my uniform when I absolutely have to so I don't get made fun of or stick out." I can understand when people do it because they can't run errands in greasy-ass coveralls. But it bugs the shit out of me when I see people do it with khakis or another uniform that is perfectly acceptable for wear in town. Come on. What are we, in middle school?

 

[usmarinemike]

This is a personal pet peeve of mine, and if the uniform regs are driving people to do it, then IMO something is wrong. You should be proud to be in the US Military, and the whole civvies to work thing comes across as "well, I'm only going to wear my uniform when I absolutely have to so I don't get made fun of or stick out." I can understand when people do it because they can't run errands in greasy-ass coveralls. But it bugs the shit out of me when I see people do it with khakis or another uniform that is perfectly acceptable for wear in town. Come on. What are we, in middle school?

It's a little different in the Marine Corps. In the Navy, khakis are a pretty common uniform, but we hardly ever wear service uniforms and cammies aren't authorized for wear on liberty. When a Marine is choosing what to wear off base because he can't wear cammies/flight suit, the service uniform isn't even on the radar. The rationale, I think, behind not wearing cammies off base is that it's a) not gentlemanly to wear your battle uniform in public and b) that it's much more intimidating/serious when you are seen in battle uniform.

The warrior ethos is sacred and, in a way, delicate in today's culture so we have to protect it so it doesn't become a fashion statement like it has in the Army.

 

[Crowbar]

This is a personal pet peeve of mine, and if the uniform regs are driving people to do it, then IMO something is wrong. You should be proud to be in the US Military, and the whole civvies to work thing comes across as "well, I'm only going to wear my uniform when I absolutely have to so I don't get made fun of or stick out." I can understand when people do it because they can't run errands in greasy-ass coveralls. But it bugs the shit out of me when I see people do it with khakis or another uniform that is perfectly acceptable for wear in town. Come on. What are we, in middle school?

You were NROTC, right? Where I went to school, it was almost SOP that if somebody messed up, somebody in the midshipman chain of command made them wear their uniform to class for X number of days. Yes, wearing a uniform as punishment. I squashed it every time I got the chance and tried to make people understand why it was wrong, but I'm sure some slipped past me. I kept seeing mids running around in khakis, or in a couple of cases SDBs, on non-drill days because they had done something like show up late for some event.

Anyway, after witnessing that, I can understand why people have an intense hatred for khakis. Is ^that^ a common theme in other NROTC units or what?

 

[llnick2001]

Anyway, after witnessing that, I can understand why people have an intense hatred for khakis. Is ^that^ a common theme in other NROTC units or what?

They keep it rolling in helo advanced. The only time we wore khakis was for duty (understandable) or when we downed a flight. They call it the penatly suit for a reason.

 

[chupacabra]

You were NROTC, right? Where I went to school, it was almost SOP that if somebody messed up, somebody in the midshipman chain of command made them wear their uniform to class for X number of days. Yes, wearing a uniform as punishment. I squashed it every time I got the chance and tried to make people understand why it was wrong, but I'm sure some slipped past me. I kept seeing mids running around in khakis, or in a couple of cases SDBs, on non-drill days because they had done something like show up late for some event.

Anyway, after witnessing that, I can understand why people have an intense hatred for khakis. Is ^that^ a common theme in other NROTC units or what?

We used that punishment at my unit when people messed up, but it was more along the lines of "You have to muster with the AMOI in khakis at 0600 so he can inspect you." Sometimes midshipmen would have to go to class in them, but it was used more as a punishment for people who had worn the uniform improperly, not shaved, worn inappropriate civilian attire, or were seen out of the uniform of the day on drill days.

I agree with the thought that wearing the uniform as a general punishment is completely backwards, but in some cases it fits the offense.

 

[Crowbar]

We used that punishment at my unit when people messed up, but it was more along the lines of "You have to muster with the AMOI in khakis at 0600 so he can inspect you." Sometimes midshipmen would have to go to class in them, but it was used more as a punishment for people who had worn the uniform improperly, not shaved, worn inappropriate civilian attire, or were seen out of the uniform of the day on drill days.

I agree with the thought that wearing the uniform as a general punishment is completely backwards, but in some cases it fits the offense.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you described. For most of our mids, though, it was usually, "You didn't do all of your study hours, so wear khakis for a week." No supervision or follow-up. So if somebody had to wear their uniform to class because they looked like crap in their uniform, then they just went to class looking like crap.

Any time I saw a substandard uniform worth an inspection, I would tell the person that I would take care of them at the next drill period. I saw no need to associate punishment with the wearing of a uniform.

 

[cisforsmasher]

Wearing the uniform should never be thought of as punishment. It is an honor and a privilege bestowed upon you by the citizens of this nation. Yes, you wear it when you screw up in flight school so you look presentable to the old man but that should not equate into punishment for missing class. I feel that breeds an undue dislike for something that you should be proud of. You make it sound like you are hiding your identity like some kind of super hero. Failing a uniform inspection should be followed by more inspections, not wearing it to class. That would not teach the offender anything except disdain for the uniform which is exactly the opposite of what a unit should be imbuing. Is that meant to embarrass him? I feel there is no situation where that would be justified. Whoever that commander is that authorizes that should take a closer look on the message he is conveying to his charges.

 

[Dhc2tacksby]

Please see this thread in reference to uniform punishment:

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137501

 

[llnick2001]

Yes, you wear it when you screw up in flight school so you look presentable to the old man

He's an aviator, and I'm an aviator. He of all people should find a flight suit to be the most presentable uniform we have.

 

[skidkid]

He's an aviator, and I'm an aviator. He of all people should find a flight suit to be the most presentable uniform we have.

in regards to kahkis/charlies upon recieving a down:
Yeah he is an Aviator, the guy in Khakis/Charlies is only an aspiring aviator and one who at the time is struggling the "upgrade" in uniform is absolutely apropriate. It also allows all your peers to positively influence you, there are few forces in aviation stronger than peer pressure.

 

[llnick2001]

So wearing the "upgrade" isn't a punishment; it's a way to make the studs look bad in front of their buddies in hopes that said buddies will help them along? I don't buy it. It sounds an awful lot like a punishment to me. Maybe it's a Navy vs. Marine thing, but I never saw any one come to the aid of a friend in khakis and help the guy turn it around magically. The guys that got help were the ones that asked for it not the guys that wore the dressiest uniform.

 

[skidkid]

So wearing the "upgrade" isn't a punishment; it's a way to make the studs look bad in front of their buddies in hopes that said buddies will help them along? I don't buy it. It sounds an awful lot like a punishment to me. Maybe it's a Navy vs. Marine thing, but I never saw any one come to the aid of a friend in khakis and help the guy turn it around magically. The guys that got help were the ones that asked for it not the guys that wore the dressiest uniform.

The power of humiliation in front of ones peers is a powerful motivator. It has worked for many many years in Naval Aviation. Yes wearing a certain uniform can and is used as a form of punishment, one of many in a CO's bag of tricks.

 

[llnick2001]

I understand it can, and I know that it is. My opinion is that it shouldn't. Given my pay grade, that's all it is, an opinion. Maybe someday I'll see it differently.

 

[jamnww]

I never saw any one come to the aid of a friend in khakis and help the guy turn it around magically. The guys that got help were the ones that asked for it not the guys that wore the dressiest uniform.

I could give you probably half a dozen cases where someone downed a brief or flight and their buddies, seeing them in Chucks or kackis, would offer help with studying and so forth. Didn't always help but I know it made a difference on one or two occassions for different people. You might be surprised how many people just approach someone wearing the "upgrade" and start asking questions about what happened.

 

[llnick2001]

I guess I stand corrected then. I still don't think that's what it should take to get someone to study though. Maybe I'm just being stubborn, but I think the guys being downed should take it on themselves to seek any needed help.