Point Paper/Letter Re: Aviation Greens.

[bb1125]

As we celebrate our Naval Heritage with the re-introduction of Service Dress Khakis, Aviation Working Greens should remain proudly remain a part of the Aviator’s Sea Bag.

Just proofreading for ya

 

[MasterBates]

Here is the is fix

Keeping The AWGs

Without question the return of Service Dress Khaki has been welcomed by many officers and has even begun to make waves among the ranks of Midshipmen and Officer Candidates. The return of Service Dress Khaki will display a dedication to the strong sense of tradition held by the Naval Service. That sense of tradition has prompted the authoring of this letter. While we welcome the return of the Service Dress Khaki, the retirement of another historic uniform has gone almost unnoticed. This uniform dates back to the beginning of Naval Aviation and is unfortunately slated for retirement with the introduction of the new Navy Working Uniform. I am referring of course to Aviation Working Greens.

The Aviation community has three historic and traditional uniform articles, the leather flight jacket, brown shoes, and Aviation Working Greens. While the leather flight jacket was introduced during the 1930’s, Aviation Working Greens date back to 1917, six years after the inception of Naval Aviation and just four years after the introduction of brown shoes. I mention the wearing of brown shoes in this case because it was not long ago that brown shoes were eliminated, only to be resurrected 9 years later. There is an opportunity here to save this historic and traditional uniform without retracing the steps of those who fought so hard to bring back brown shoes.

Of all the branches of the armed services the Naval Service by far has strongest sense of tradition. While the fate of AWGs may not matter to non-aviators, the sense of tradition they represent should be preserved. The retirement of Aviation Working Greens would amount to the retirement of a great Naval Aviation tradition.

There has recently been significant resurgence of interest in this historic uniform amongst the Aviation community. Today Aviation Working Greens are rarely worn, but they should remain and optional uniform rather than be phased out. Possible reasons for wear of the uniform include but are not limited to Squadron Duty Officer, or situations which require a more formal uniform than the Navy Working Uniform.

While the current round of uniform regulation revisions has been aimed at simplifying and reducing the cost of the Sea Bag for Sailors, the current de facto policy for the Aviation Working Green uniform is that those who choose to buy it and wear it do so. Those that do not desire to wear Aviation Working Greens have never been required to buy them in recent history. Keeping them as an alternate uniform to be worn when Service Dress Khaki, Service Khaki, or Service Dress Blue would otherwise be worn is a fine way to uphold Naval traditions while keeping the cost of the Sea Bag reasonable. To further reduce cost the Leather Flight Jacket can be worn in lieu of the Aviation Working Green coat. The only additional items that are needed are the Aviation Working Green trousers, and either a green Garrison Cap or a Green Combination Cover. The rest of the components are part of other common uniforms.

The Naval Service has a rich history, one that any Sailor can be proud of. The history of this uniform would be a shame to lose. Recalling all those who have come before us in Naval Aviation. Presidents, Medal of Honor recipients, numerous other combat veterans, they all wore this uniform with pride and honor. It would be a tragedy to end that tradition. As we celebrate our Naval Heritage with the re-introduction of Service Dress Khakis, Aviation Working Greens should proudly remain a part of the Aviator’s Sea Bag.

 

[bb1125]

Here is the is fix

I caught that too. Damn I'm good!

 

[raptor10]

another grammar correction

There has recently been significant resurgence of interest in this historic uniform amongst the Aviation community. Today Aviation Working Greens are rarely worn, but they should remain an optional uniform rather than be phased out. Possible reasons for wear of the uniform include but are not limited to Squadron Duty Officer, or situations which require a more formal uniform than the Navy Working Uniform.

 

[Hozer]

would think I would mail a number of originals out to each base/CAG/CV with a lead man.. He gets the letter passed around. Returns to me (or whoever takes point on submitting letter). Copy of letter along with all signatories gets mailed to Proceedings, The Hook, Rotor Review, etc.

Originals possibly forwarded to higher.. Who exactly is the devil I need to work out.

Exactly. I'm thinking senior JO's should approach respective CO's and Commodores for a read and subsequent endorsement on command letterhead, ultimately fwd'd to AirLant and AirPac.
Chiefs of Staff should be the pipe for Commodores.
Now, this may take a little time but ideally, we should be wearing AWG's to as many functions as possible. A no brainer, but you have to look as sharp as possible, NO BAGS OF ASS. Wear them to work obviously, but lunches at the Club, 19th Hole, and wingings too.
Btw, AWG's are absolutely authorized anywhere on base, including the Club.
The base CO here nodded to them at the 19th hole last week and I think the P-3 Commodore will be on board.
But talk is cheap.

 

[MasterBates]

Anyone who wants to take point for their respective squadron/wing/CAG/staff PM me.

Save the grammar corrections, I think it's ready to ship.

 

[et1nuke]

Checkout the CNO's message NAVADMIN 308/07. It OUTLINES A NEW UNIFORM REVIEW BOARD THAT WILL FACILITATE INPUT, AND RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE FLEET. MAYBE THIS IS A ROUTE YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN INVESTIGATING.

PS SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS. MY STUPID NMCI COMPUTER KVM SWITCH ACTS UP ABOUT ONCE A DAY RIGHT NOW AND i DIDN'T WANT TO RESTART IN THE MIDDLE OF MY REPLY.

 

[MasterBates]

Okay, I have it ready to ship.

Many have suggested contributed things to this letter. I cannot take the credit for it. If you helped with this, and would like to sign the copy going to Proceedings, (or if you agree with it) please PM me so I can sort you by rank/seniority.

JOs please throw in what YG you are. Hinge and above, lineal number, so I can get you in the proper order.

Also, for sending the letter up to the Uniform Review Board, I need some guys to drive this from the grassroots in your respective squadrons. I can be a central clearing house, but I cannot contact each senior JO at every command.

 

[MasterBates]

It's ready to ship. The Man has it at the moment, I will have it out this week barring any issues.

 

[MasterBates]

Approved by The Man, and on the way.

Now for phase 2. Working on a Naval Letter to the Naval Uniform Board.

Here is the pertinent NAVADMIN I am working off of.

UNCLASSIFIED//

PASS TO ALL OFFICE CODES:
R 211455Z NOV 07
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//
TO NAVADMIN
INFO CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//
UNCLAS //N01020//
NAVADMIN 310/07
MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1/NOV//
SUBJ/NAVY UNIFORM BOARD//
REF/A/DOC/CHNAVPERS/01JAN2003//
AMPN/REF A IS U.S. NAVY UNIFORM REGULATIONS, NAVPERS 15665 ON BUPERS
DIRECTIVE CD ROM.//
RMKS/1. THIS NAVADMIN ANNOUNCES THE NAVY UNIFORM BOARD. TASK FORCE
UNIFORM (TASK FORCE U), WHICH HAS BEEN THE AGENT OF NAVY UNIFORM
IMPROVEMENT FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, IS “MISSION COMPLETE” AND
DISESTABLISHED. IN ITS PLACE, AN UPDATED AND IMPROVED NAVY UNIFORM
BOARD IS IMPLEMENTED.
2. TASK FORCE U ADVANCED SEVERAL UNIFORM INITIATIVES TO IMPROVE NAVY
UNIFORM DESIGNS, FIT AND FUNCTIONALITY. THIS TASK WAS ACCOMPLISHED BY
UTILIZING DIRECT INPUT FROM THE FLEET, AND DRAWING FROM THE EXPERTISE
OF OUR SISTER SERVICES, THE DEFENSE LOGISTICS AGENCY AND THE GREATER
TEXTILE INDUSTRY. TASK FORCE U STREAMLINED OUR UNIFORM RESEARCH AND
DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, SUPPORTING SOUND DECISION-MAKING AND BUSINESS
PRACTICES WHILE EXPEDITING FLEET INTRODUCTION OF NEW UNIFORMS. MOST
NOTABLY, OUR NAVY WILL SOON BENEFIT FROM THE CONSUMMATION OF THREE
MAJOR UNIFORM INITIATIVES: THE PHYSICAL TRAINING UNIFORM, THE NAVY
SERVICE UNIFORM AND THE NAVY WORKING UNIFORM. BUILDING ON OUR LESSONS
LEARNED FROM TASK FORCE U, WE ARE NOW READY TO CARRY FORWARD WITH A
NEWLY ESTABLISHED AND REORGANIZED UNIFORM BOARD.
3. THE NAVY UNIFORM BOARD IS LED BY THE CHIEF OF NAVAL PERSONNEL
(PRESIDENT). BOARD MEMBERSHIP AND PROCESSES HAVE BEEN REVISED AND
SHAPED TO FACILITATE SIGNIFICANT FLEET REVIEW/INPUT, YET STREAMLINED TO
PROVIDE A HIGHER LEVEL AGILITY AND RESPONSIVENESS. THE NAVY UNIFORM
MATTERS OFFICE (OPNAV N131U) PROVIDES FULL TIME SUPPORT TO THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNIFORM BOARD. THE FUNCTIONS OF THE UNIFORM BOARD ARE
AS FOLLOWS:
A. REVIEW AND RECOMMEND SPECIFICATION CHANGES CONCERNING DESIGN,
DETAIL AND MATERIAL OF UNIFORM ITEMS.
B. MAINTAIN AND INTERPRET U.S. NAVY UNIFORM REGULATIONS PER
UNIFORM POLICY AND CNO DECISIONS.
C. MONITOR IMPLEMENTATION OF UNIFORM POLICY.
D. REVIEW DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING OF PROPOSED UNIFORMS AND
IMPLEMENTATION OF APPROVED UNIFORM COMPONENTS.
E. MONITOR PROCUREMENT, ISSUE, AND RETAIL OF NAVY UNIFORMS
ENSURING CONFORMANCE WITH UNIFORM REGULATIONS.
F. MAINTAIN AWARENESS OF OTHER SERVICES? UNIFORM DEVELOPMENTS.
G. REVIEW INDIVIDUAL CLOTHING ALLOWANCES FOR THE CNO APPROVED
SEABAG REQUIREMENTS PRIOR TO SUBMISSION TO OFFICE OF THE ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (PERSONNEL AND READINESS).
4. ALL TASK FORCE U ASSOCIATED UNIFORM INITIATIVES ARE NOW TRANSFERRED
TO AND MANAGED BY THE NAVY UNIFORM MATTERS OFFICE UNDER THE DIRECTION
OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE NAVY UNIFORM BOARD/CHIEF OF NAVAL PERSONNEL.
THIS INCLUDES THE CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT AND WEAR TESTING OF NAVY?S
PROTOTYPE UNIFORMS: SERVICE DRESS KHAKI, E1-E6 SERVICE DRESS BLUE
(MALE ONLY) AND E1-E6 SERVICE DRESS WHITE.
5. SAILORS MAY MAKE UNIFORM OR UNIFORM REGULATION CHANGE
RECOMMENDATIONS VIA THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND TO THE UNIFORM BOARD.
INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS SHOULD BE COMPREHENSIVE IN DESCRIPTION,
APPLICATION AND INTENDED IMPACT. RECOMMENDATIONS SHOULD ALSO REFLECT A
TOTAL NAVY APPLICATION WITH AN EYE TOWARDS STANDARDIZATION AND
REQUIREMENT REDUCTION. UNIFORM PROPOSALS WHICH ARE NOT ENDORSED
FAVORABLY AT EACH LEVEL OF THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED BY
THE BOARD. RECOMMENDATIONS WHICH ARE FAVORABLY ENDORSED AT EACH LEVEL
SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO NAVY UNIFORM BOARD, DEPUTY CHIEF OF NAVAL
OPERATIONS (N131U), 2 NAVY ANNEX, ROOM 3024, WASHINGTON, DC 20370-5000.
SUBMISSIONS SHALL BE FORWARDED AS FOLLOWS:
A. FLEET UNITS: UNIFORMS AND UNIFORM REGULATION CHANGE PROPOSALS
SHALL BE EVALUATED AND ENDORSED AT THE UNIT LEVEL, FORWARDED THROUGH
THE CHAIN OF COMMAND UP TO THE FORCE (TYCOM)(N1) AND FLEET LEVEL (N1),
AS APPROPRIATE. FLEET COMMANDERS WILL PERFORM A FINAL SCREENING AND
ENDORSEMENT PRIOR TO FINAL FORWARDING TO THE NAVY UNIFORM BOARD.
B. SHORE INSTALLATIONS: FORWARD EVALUATED AND ENDORSED
RECOMMENDATIONS TO COMMANDER, NAVY INSTALLATIONS COMMAND (CNIC) VIA
THEIR RESPECTIVE REGION COMMANDER. CNIC WILL FORWARD RECOMMENDATIONS
TO U.S. FLEET FORCES (N1) FOR CONSIDERATION. U.S. FLEET FORCES FORWARD
APPROVED RECOMMENDATIONS WITH ENDORSEMENT TO THE NAVY UNIFORM BOARD.
C. TRAINING COMMANDS (LESS U.S. NAVAL ACADEMY): FORWARD EVALUATED
AND ENDORSED RECOMMENDATIONS TO NAVY EDUCATION AND TRAINING COMMAND
(NETC). NETC WILL PERFORM A FINAL SCREENING AND ENDORSEMENT TO THE
NAVY UNIFORM BOARD.
D. ALL OTHERS: UNIFORMS AND UNIFORM REGULATION CHANGE PROPOSALS
SHALL BE EVALUATED AND ENDORSED AT THE UNIT LEVEL AND FORWARDED THROUGH
THE ADMINISTRATIVE CHAIN OF COMMAND WITH FINAL ENDORSEMENT TO THE NAVY
UNIFORM BOARD.
6. THE UNIFORM BOARD SHALL MEET SEMI-ANNUALLY AND/OR WHEN CALLED BY
THE BOARD PRESIDENT. THE FIRST UNIFORM BOARD CONVENING DATE WILL BE
ANNOUNCED VIA SEPARATE CORRESPONDENCE.
7. THIS NAVADMIN SHOULD BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH REF A UNTIL
REVISIONS ARE INCORPORATED INTO THE QUARTERLY BUPERS DIRECTIVE CD-ROM
CHANGE.
8. POINT OF CONTACT IS MR. ROBERT B. CARROLL, OPNAV N1310, AT
(703) 614-5076/DSN 224 OR EMAIL AT ROBERT.B.CARROLL(AT)NAVY.MIL.
9. RELEASED BY VADM J. C. HARVEY JR., N1.//

BT


NNNN

I am setting up the letter in proper Naval Letter format from me to the Uniform Review Board, via Squadron CO, Commodore, CNATRA, and CNET. (spelled out in NAVADMIN)

This is where I am asking to have the AWG's saved, and made into a service uniform, like SDK. That would be more relevant with how they are worn.

Any ideas/help are appreciated, as always.

I am thinking of paragraph 1 spelling out why they should be saved, and paragraph 2 being a recommendation that they be made into a Service/Liberty uniform, as they are on par with SDK and SK.

 

[MasterBates]

Here is the draft:

SSIC
CODE/SERIAL
4 DEC 2007​

From:__LT Master Bates XXX-YY-ZZZZ/1310
To:_____Navy Uniform Board OPNAV N131U
Via:_-_(1)Commanding Officer, My Squadron (VT-XX)
_______(2)Commander, My Wing (TW-Y)
_______(3)Chief of Naval Air Training (CNATRA)
_______(4)Chief of Naval Education and Training (CNET)
Subj: Aviation Green Uniform

1. Respectfully request that Aviation Working Greens not be retired, but instead be changed to Aviation Service Greens, to more accurately reflect their current manner of wearing. Aviation Greens are a historical uniform that dates back to 1917, and projects a positive image on the Naval Service as a whole.

2. Request Aviation Greens be maintained as an optional uniform as not to interfere with the objective of cutting the sea bag's total cost. For the authorized variant wearing the Leather Flight Jacket in place of the Aviation Green blouse, the cost is under $75.00 for one pair of trousers and a Aviation Green garrison cap.

3. Recommend NEX stock AWG Trousers and Jacket in common sizes. Cost would be less if NEX stocked the Aviation Green specific components, versus being a special order item. Trousers, Jacket, Garrison and Combination Cover are are the only Aviation Green specific uniform items.

C. A. BATES​

 

[MasterBates]

Trying to find an appropriate SSIC code.

So far I can find searching SECNAV 5215 the following:

1020 UNIFORMS RECORDS
10122 OFFICER CLOTHING AND UNIFORMS RECORDS

Not much else I can dig up under Uniform. Any other ideas for SSIC?

 

[DanMa1156]

Just wanted to say good luck, we're all counting on you.

Well, seriously, good luck with it all.

 

[et1nuke]

_______(4)Chief of Naval Education and Training (CNET)

Isn't it NETC now. I believe it's Commander, Naval Education and Training Command changed back in 2003 I think.

Command Hierarchy
CNO ->
NETC (Naval Education and Training Command) ->
NPDC (Naval Personnel Development Command) ->
CNATT (Center for Naval Aviation Technical Training)

 

[Beans]

It is NETC... https://www.netc.navy.mil/

Also, I think the "jacket" is referred to in the uniform regs as a "coat."