Blue Angels, F4J Phantoms

[plc67]

After the '73 season was shut down after the Lakehurst arrival show accident the navy gave serious thought to disbanding the Blues, but wiser heads prevailed and they came back with the A4s.
One of the Blues more embarrassing moments in the F4 came when Vince Donile went supersonic in a major Canadian city and knocked out many windows. Captain Donile was a bit of a legend I was told.

 

[Pugs]

Wasn't much to be stripped As I recall the slats were fastened in the closed postion. I've always been curious about that, how 'bout a heads up.

Steve

Two words "slat departure" since the A-4 slats were not powered and came out depending upon AOA and airspeed they often did not come out together resulting in roll movement or - if it was dramatic like at the merge a real ugly roll that banged my head off the canopy on more than one occasion. Obviously not something compatible with close form like the Blue do.

I'm sure A-4's has much more detail and I know a good slat rigger was a prizer airframer

 

[A4sForever]

.... As I recall the slats were fastened in the closed postion. I've always been curious about that, how 'bout a heads up.

Steve

Affirm; true story. It was not a good BLUE's idea to have the A-4 aerodynamic LE slats popping out on their own -- irregularly and sometimes assymetrically -- during tight formation and/or low speed maneuvers.

 

[A4sForever]

Two words "slat departure" - if it was dramatic like at the merge a real ugly roll that banged my head off the canopy on more than one occasion. ...

Ouch!! I hurt my neck more than once or twice in a similar situation. Hurts just reading it ...

 

[A4sForever]

A4, are the Blues some thing that you apply for in the fleet or are you "selected" and given the opportunity? Did you ever contemplate it or have anyone in your squadron become a member?

You apply -- gotta connect a lot of dots to make it happen -- in the ol' days, you "rushed" them very much like you would a Fraternity. You followed 'em around the country -- literally -- when they did the Season and bellied up to the bar w/ 'em at each and every opportunity. That all kinda changed when the BLUE's became a "squadron" type organization, but I'm certain that "who you know and/or who you blow" still plays a large part. Some things just don't change much ...

I thought about it; but my sea/shore rotation was a little "off" as I had extended/been drafted for a third cruise on my first sea tour -- but it COULD have worked. I just guess I wasn't a good enough "party boy" to make it worth the effort in the ol' days ... you had to really, really want it. Plus -- and this was BIG at the time -- the airlines were beckoning and starting to hire after a LONG dry spell and it was do or die on that score. And I'd had ENOUGH of Jimmy Carter's Navy. Lots of reasons ... :icon_wink

A couple of my former shipmates, at least one former squadron mate, and a coupld of former STUDs of mine became BLUES BROTHERS at one time or another ...

 

[brownshoe]

Two words "slat departure"

Thanks Pugs, you too A4's. But what I was curious about is what special did the pilot have to do to fly the plane when the slats didn't operate. I do remember that we checked them on preflight very carefully. Grab the edge then push to see if they would bind in any way.

Steve

 

[A4sForever]

Thanks Pugs, you too A4's. But what I was curious about is what special did the pilot have to do to fly the plane when the slats didn't operate. I do remember that we checked them on preflight very carefully. Grab the edge then push to see if the would bind in any way.

Steve

Just maintain higher speeds on landing and/or takeoff -- mebbe some inflight maneuvers, as well. The effective "loss" of slats due to wiring them UP would affect you in these areas. The A-4 trade-off would come in the area of more "predictability" as there would be no asymmetric deployments of the LE slats when flying tight.

 

[BlkPny]

I was in Flight Systems, today's API, when the Blues returned to Pensacola flying, for the first time, their new F-4's. All classes, and I mean ALL classes, were cancelled for the day, and everyone hauled ass out to the field for their welcome home air show. I think that even the AOCS Battalions turned out. They came in low from the west in a cloud of smoke. The crowd, mostly SNAs, SNFOs, and flight crewmen, went wild.

 

[Catmando]

I dunno -- I always like the A-4 shows best (what a surprise ) as they tended to stay right over the crowd "more" in the vertical. Liked that delta-winged diamond, too. Personal preference ...

I dunno -- I always like the F-4 shows best (what a surprise )

Random personal comments/observations/answers to some earlier posts…..

1. While the A-4 was better suited for a tight airshow in view of the audience, nothing could match the raw and thundering brute power of those twin J-79's, especially when burner was selected and hot flames shot out. It would shake you to your core. Plus, they looked like big, mean, black-smoking rats that would put the fear of death in you, if you got in there way...unlike that little meek 'Scooter'.

2. The F11F's to me had the greatest lines and flew the prettiest formations of all.

3. To answer Harrier Dude's question, the F-4 had two different types of trailing edge flaps – traditional flaps and "drooped ailerons" that acted like flaps. When F-4 flaps were selected, in addition to the normal flaps, a bell-crank repositioned the ailerons 16.5 inches downward. Thus, they looked and acted like flaps, but they still could move up and down like ailerons. When the flap handle was raised, the ailerons returned to their normal, faired position.

4. Although there were a number of reasons for the switch from F-4's to A-4's, it was the fatal Lakehurst that was the end of the F-4's for the Blues, and almost the end forever of the Blue Angels as plc67 correctly indicated earlier. (I was going to Lakehurst to see their show the next day until the tragic incident.) LINK

5. Perhaps more embarrassing than the Canadian supersonic show was the Blue's F-4 that made an unintentional, gear-up landing during a show in Cedar Rapids IA.

6. To become a Blue Angel was (and I assume still is) a long process. If their website doesn't have it, there are instructions available. Basically you fill out an application. There are some qualifications, i.e. minimum hours, one tour completed, specific aircraft, etc. Then you must have C.O. and higher formal recommendations. After that you spend a season "chasing the Blues" where you attend as many airshows with them as you can. It is like rushing a fraternity. You get a better understanding of the enormous demands on the team, they get to see how you fit in and relate to them, how you relate to the public, and how you might represent the Navy in a most positive way.

 

[Schnugg]

I lived under the flight path for South Weymouth NAS. It was an A-4 and P-3 base at the time.

My best memories as a kid in the early 70's were the Blues flying F-4 Phantoms over my house during the show.

I remember saying I want to do that...never got into Phantoms, but F-14s sufficed.

 

[Old R.O.]

In 1972 I got to see both the Blue Angles and the Thunderbirds, both in F-4s.
When I was at NAS Glynco getting my wings, the Blues performed at an airshow there. Watched one of the shows at the air station, and another from my steps in my off base place in Brunswick. Being in training to fly in the F-4, it was a huge morale boost.
Got to Miramar, and they had the Thunderbirds perform that year.
As has been said, there was something awe-inspiring about having eight smokin' J79s (--12 in the delta formation) flying in close formation in that hulkin' airframe close to the ground and close the the crowd. The feeling of brute power as it rattled your chest was indescribable.

 

[Flugelman]

/Slight threadjack/

I remember reading (back in the 60's) some hilarious Blues stories/history in a book by Admiral Dan Gallery.

One of the stories has the Blues transiting down the west coast in F8Fs, between cloud layers. They meet a P5M heading north. In the P5M, the PPC has just put an O-6 passenger in the left seat while he goes to the head. Blues lead sees the P5M and rolls the formation inverted. The O-6 at the controls finally spots the Blues inverted formation, loses SA, and thinking he was upside down, tries to roll the P5 to what he thinks is rightside up.

I'll go out and see what I can find on the title of the book and report back.

 

[Fog]

Flugelman:
With stories like that, it really doesn't matter if they're true. Great story, and can you imagine anyone trying to roll a P-5M?

 

[Blutonski816]

/Slight threadjack/
One of the stories has the Blues transiting down the west coast in F8Fs, between cloud layers. They meet a P5M heading north. In the P5M, the PPC has just put an O-6 passenger in the left seat while he goes to the head. Blues lead sees the P5M and rolls the formation inverted. The O-6 at the controls finally spots the Blues inverted formation, loses SA, and thinking he was upside down, tries to roll the P5 to what he thinks is rightside up.

Man I can only imagine what the Blues are thinking when they saw that

"Hey, he wants to go inverted too"


On a sad note, I have not had the pleasure of seeing the blues perform in person. Lived in Vegas for the past 10 years, all we get are Thunderbirds... the only time I saw a Blue Angel fly was one day during my Freshman year of high school, I was on the bus home and the No 7 bird flys right over us at looked like no more that 500 feet. Could read the tail number and "US NAVY" on the underside of the wings. Never did find out what that one plane was doing all by its lonesome over this town...

 

[phrogpilot73]

the only time I saw a Blue Angel fly was one day during my Freshman year of high school, I was on the bus home and the No 7 bird flys right over us at looked like no more that 500 feet. Could read the tail number and "US NAVY" on the underside of the wings. Never did find out what that one plane was doing all by its lonesome over this town...

They take the Number 7 on the road when doing site surveys for their upcoming shows... Ran into a couple of the "Spandex Flight Suit" Bubbas at Biggs in El Paso. We were departing a little later that day, destination Yuma. They were there for the site survey. Seemed like decent enough guys. Until they took off - did the whole 50 ft over the runway to max performance vertical crap. Not much that I can do to look cool like that. But we did a deck run anyway