Government May Nationalize the Auto Industry

[The Chief]

... build the affordable ones that are in such high demand right now... Why? Because of all the contracts that have been negotiated and signed between the unions and management it actually costs them money if they sell the affordable car. Something like (and I heard the number, but can't find it) $1000/car. So they're hemorrhaging money.

Yeah for C-span. I watched the hearings yesterday, it made me ill. Richard Wagoner of GM explained that GM was going to have to idle some of it's plants for some extended time and needed their share of the $25 Billions ($12 x 10 to the 9th) to pay all employees 95% of salary even though the did not even show up for work, ergo GM could not even idle plants as they had no $$ to pay the idle employees. The distinguished Senator Dodd came to a strident defense of the UAW practice and he commended GM for paying the employees of the idle plant.

I think it might be fair to say that the unions have bought and paid for our Government, now they expect it to do their bidding.

As Pogo would often say, "we have met the enemy and it is us"

Workers of the world UNITE!

 

[red_ryder]

So then the big 3 auto makers heard that the government was just handing out money to whoever said they were in trouble, and decided to ransom themselves for $25 billion.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, let them burn!

 

[Mumbles]

Mitt Romney's take on the Auto bailout from today's NYT Op-Ed.....
Let Detroit fall on it's ass!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=2

 

[Stick]

There's two problems that is causing the big three to fail. One - unions, and two - management. My google-fu is weak today, but as previously mentioned the average wage of a union worker in an auto plant is $75/hour, non union is $45/hour, and the average wage for the entire country is $28/hour.

I agree with what you are saying about what the problems are, but I would like to know where the wages you used are coming from. This is directly from the UAW website:

How much are current UAW auto industry wages?
In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor. Between 2003 and 2006, the wages of a typical UAW assembler have grown at about the same rate as wages in the private sector as a whole – roughly 9 percent. Part of that growth is due to cost-of-living adjustments that have helped prevent inflation from eroding the purchasing power of workers’ wages.

If you have other info I would like to see it. Don't get me wrong, I believe the UAW caused much of the problems with the "big 3".

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

 

[The Chief]

... I believe the UAW caused much of the problems with the "big 3". ...

Clarification please. By "Big 3" do you mean Obama, Pelosi and Reid?:tongue2_1 or the Auto Industry.

Oh, never mind, guess it does work both ways

 

[The Chief]

...If you have other info I would like to see it.

$73,000 annual for "typical"?

http://steveharryforstaterep.org/UAW_Wages.htm

Think this "typical" is median - that is half make more half make less? Might be wrong?

 

[Stick]

Ok, I wasn't doubting the numbers. I just wasn't able to find them, but I didn't search long on google. How does that average compare with the cost of living in the surrounding communities? What is the average wage in the area (not UAW workers)?

 

[The Chief]

Ok, I wasn't doubting the numbers. I just wasn't able to find them, but I didn't search long on google. How does that average compare with the cost of living in the surrounding communities? What is the average wage in the area (not UAW workers)?

Not sure, all I have is third party information passed on by folks I know in Toyota. (Cannot get back to them because they are in non-stop meetings, stratagery meetings on the issue of the day). All that said, they say with some authority that GM is paying assemblers $140,000-$150,000 a year plus benefits. I keep hearing that figure from other sources as well.

 

[Random8145]

So it isn't management's fault for not thinking ahead in what cars they brought to the marketplace..."gas will be cheap forever and everyone will always want a giant SUV". It ain't UAW that made those decisions; assign blame where blame is due. Even though quality has increased greatly with American cars, high gas prices and the inability of people to get a loan due to the credit crises is causing the Big 3 to tank.

I'd love to see the pay scale of which you speak where the single rivet guy gets $80 an hour.

There's blame both ways I think, however, I think the problem here is that these are public companies (although Chrysler just went private). The problem is with public companies, shareholders expect earnings and profits to increase every quarter. So long-term planning/growth may be difficult.

Charles Koch, the CEO and half-owner of Koch Industries, the world's largest privately-owned company, said that one of the main benefits of being private is they can focus on the long-term growth, instead of the short-term, like public companies have to; he said Koch Industries wouldn't be where it is if it was a public company.

 

[Stick]

There's blame both ways I think... The problem is with public companies, shareholders expect earnings and profits to increase every quarter. So long-term planning/growth may be difficult.

...one of the main benefits of being private is they can focus on the long-term growth, instead of the short-term, like public companies have to...

This is very true. People are so concerned with making a quick dollar that they don't look long term, which if they did it could bring larger returns. When will people learn? I think, never.

 

[Stick]

Not sure, all I have is third party information passed on by folks I know in Toyota. (Cannot get back to them because they are in non-stop meetings, stratagery meetings on the issue of the day). All that said, they say with some authority that GM is paying assemblers $140,000-$150,000 a year plus benefits. I keep hearing that figure from other sources as well.

For putting together an f'ing car? I am in the wrong job field. I did not join the Navy for the money, but I know where I am going when I retire.

 

[Mumbles]

I watched this documentary last week...."Thundercars of Indiana"....about a small town that lost its GM plant and the yokels soup up old Monte Carlos to race. Thoroughly entertaining. I kind of expected to see Master Bates on the track in this show.

 

[S.O.B.]

Times are obviously tough for the Big three:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6285739&page=1

 

[WO_Flyer]

Thats a nice $20,000 business tax deduction..

 

[Bevo16]

Because the auto industry sucks does not need the aviation industry has to suffer too.

Just wait and see how many helo pilots are needed to carry police when the food riots start.