MIDWAY, BCS Flyover, Torpedo 'Rons AND associated threadjacks ...

[A4sForever]

Not without a dude on the ground in good comms. It's EXTREMELY difficult, and involves some luck. I've done them gnats ass to the letter on the national anthem, and been 16 seconds late. Success/failure is predicated totally on communication and planning.

No way, younger Bruddah. I could say "bullshit", but I don't want to hurt your feelings.

We'd do an entire 30+ bird ALPHA strike -- RIGHT ON THE MONEY -- w/ your basic Hamilton GI issue watch ... +/- 10 seconds ... I shit you not. Years later an AirWing max effort "war at sea-ex" was just as "coordinated".




You just gotta "feel it" and "do it" ... and practice helps, mostly as a reinforcement that you CAN "do it" ... but I never saw anyone "really" screw it up when it counted.

It's not rocket science ... it's just basics:

Mickey's big hand is on the ... etc., etc. ...

 

[stalk]

...It's not rocket science ... it's just basics:
Mickey's big hand is on the ... etc., etc. ...

Geez A4s, how did we ever find the target before GPS?

 

[FLYTPAY]

A4's, Single Seat is right on the money with this one. An aviator preferably, is REQUIRED(not statutory...just if you are going to be on the $) to give the flight lead an update as to if the National Anthem started early/late. You know how long it is supposed to take but if the singer gets carried away with a 10 count high C, there is nothing you can really do. The jets today can input the TOT into the computer and spit out the speed required to shack the TOT. No more of this +/- 10 seconds of yestercentury!

Geez A4s, how did we ever find the target before GPS?

INS

 

[FlyinSpy]

It's not rocket science ... it's just basics:

Mickey's big hand is on the ... etc., etc. ...

The issue here is that with flyovers, it's more than just hitting a ToT - it's hitting show center when the singer hits "brave!" (as in "home of the...") - which may or may not be the originally scheduled ToT. Since this is entirely dependent on a) when the singer actually starts singing, b) how fast they normally get through the anthem, and c) how fast they are *actually* singing that day, you can't just fix a ToT - that's how folks end up way early or late. By getting briefed the day prior on the tendencies of the singer in question (including *expected* start time and normal duration), you can set up a push point and a run-in; by having someone with a radio and a stopwatch in the stadium, you can then push at the right time, and then adjust your speed to hit your "dynamic" ToT.

 

[Single Seat]

No way, younger Bruddah. I could say "bullshit", but I don't want to hurt your feelings.

I agree whole heartedly, however we were talking about hitting a moving TOT... the end of the National Anthem for a major flyover! Performers sing faster/slower start early/late, the TOT is a moving target and you've gotta hit it +\- 2 seconds for it to REALLY look good, hence the dude on the ground with the radio is crucial.

Shacking your specific target at a TOT to make your SEAD window... "easy." :tongue2_1

 

[A4sForever]

A4's, Single Seat is right on the money with this one. An aviator preferably, is REQUIRED(not statutory...just if you are going to be on the $) to give the flight lead an update..... No more of this +/- 10 seconds of yestercentury!


INS

HEY!!! Who said "yestercentury" ... ???

"TOT" was the same drivin' the 18-wheeler for fun and profit AND making a "moving" push time ON TIME in Tokyo out of a 25 plane stack when the WX was down ... the basics are the basics, forever and ever ....

And it's not like a Gomer would ever "move" and thus disrupt anyone's TOT ... right???

But specifically w/ regard to a National Anthem fly-over, I certainly see your point(s) ... since we're talking about "the show" and not the reality of putting warheads on foreheads. And I suppose I'd rather lay the "blame" for a missed flyover on the singer/songstress than have it come back to me for screwing up ...

INS?? What's that?? My first A-6 cruise, I think I launched w/ a full-up INS 10-15 times out of a hundred. It was more like a twin-engine A-4 w/ a good radar AND a B/N (or male secretary) thrown in for good measure.

 

[jarhead]

As previously mentioned, I think the jets being way too early (as compared to a normal flyover) had something to do with the fireworks at the end of the National Anthem.

A4 ... how you men got your bombs on trgt on time back then amazes me ... we are spoiled these days ... enter some coordinates & a TOT, and pickle when the computer tells you to; cloudy?, drop JDAM; INS drift?, not with a good GPS! And think about those warriors that launched off of the carrier out in the Pacific in the 1940's ... knowing they might not even be able to find the carrier on RTB! yep, amazing stuff ... we are definitely spoiled these days ... in a few years we won't even have to leave our house to fly an alpha strike, we'll be "flying" UCAV's from our home computers.

Semper Fidelis

 

[FLYTPAY]

HEY!!! Who said "yestercentury" ... ???

I was trying to get your heart rate monitor to go off.....looks like it worked....yestercentury in this case means the one previous to the 21st, so not long ago

 

[A4sForever]

.... think about those warriors that launched off of the carrier out in the Pacific in the 1940's ... knowing they might not even be able to find the carrier on RTB! ...

They still amaze me ... you'd launch, join up, and DR toward the last known or projected posit of Kido Butai .... then coordinate the runs/roll-ins after making it through any fighter cover and drop your ordnance w/ AAA blossoming all around and tracers going by your head ... and then scoot back over the wavetops for home plate (frequently alone) w/ nothing better than a forecast ship's PIM and good intentions ... and then ... what if it gets DARK???

Unassuming guys ... professionals ... dedicated .... selfless ...

Those guys were my heroes ...

 

[exhelodrvr]

They still amaze me ... you'd launch, join up, and DR toward the last known or projected posit of Kido Butai .... then coordinate the runs/roll-ins after making it through any fighter cover and drop your ordnance w/ AAA blossoming all around and tracers going by your head ... and then scoot back over the wavetops for home plate (frequently alone) w/ nothing better than a forecast ship's PIM and good intentions ... and then ... what if it gets DARK???

Unassuming guys ... professionals ... dedicated .... selfless ...

Those guys were my heroes ...

Especially the torpedo bombers.

"I'll fly low, slow, and straight right towards the biggest ship out there ..."

 

[NozeMan]

Especially the torpedo bombers.

"I'll fly low, slow, and straight right towards the biggest ship out there ..."

No kidding!

This has "good idea" and "self preservation" written ALL over it!

Talk about the gutsiest job in WW II Naval Aviation.

 

[exhelodrvr]

They still amaze me ...
Unassuming guys ... professionals ... dedicated .... selfless ...
Those guys were my heroes ...

Were you able to fly with any of the WWII vets in your early years?

 

[A4sForever]

Especially the torpedo bombers.

"I'll fly low, slow, and straight right towards the biggest ship out there ..."

Roger that; I think John Waldron told his squadron (VT-8) just prior to the Midway battle ... "If there's only ONE plane left, I want that man to go in and get a hit ... " They wrote their last letters home the night before. They knew many of them might not make it back; yet they went anyway ... Tigers all.

Waldron "knew" where the Jap Fleet was ... and he was right ... and reportedly told CHAG Stanhope Ring (the AirWing CDR) to "go to hell" over the radio as VT-8 split off from the rest of the AirWing and readjusted course 20-30 degrees left of the incorrect Ring course .... and then w/ his squadron following, he headed straight into the jaws of hell and into history.

Of the 128 pilots and air gunners who were in the all the torpedo squadrons (including the Midway dets) on 6-04-1942, only 29 survived; 99 died. That's a loss rate @ 80% !!!

One of my uncles -- who I never met -- was lost w/ VT-3 @ Midway. He was originally on the SARATOGA but the squadron was flying off the YORKTOWN when he was lost. My Dad would still tear up years later when the subject of his older brother came up ..

VT-2 off the LEX in relatively better days -- taking down IJN SHOHO in May 1942 @ Coral Sea ... the first pix ID's the pilot as a NAP ... great action photos:



Shoho burning as she was attacked by aircraft, Battle of Coral Sea, 7 May 1942; note TBD-1 Devastator torpedo bomber faintly visible to the right of splash ...



Shoho under attack, 7 May 1942; note the TBD-1 torpedo bomber visible against the smoke in the center of the picture ...

 

[A4sForever]

Were you able to fly with any of the WWII vets in your early years?

Didn't "fly" with them on ACDU, but I came close -- the CO of the NROTC unit was a F4F and F6F driver in WW2 w/ several kills, my 4th Class Instructor was a PBY pilot in WW2, and my XO was a BLIMP pilot w/ half a Wing of Gold as well ... .

My Freshman Instructor DID take us Aviation interested MIDN flying out of Sand Point on a regular basis as he still maintained his flight skins and skills -- he was a wild man -- up and over the top of Mt. Rainier in a bug-smasher was one of the "highlights" of his sightseeing flights ...

 

[Cron]

Especially the torpedo bombers.

"I'll fly low, slow, and straight right towards the biggest ship out there ..."

Add %60-%70 aerial torpedo failure rates on top of that (until 1944 or so)...