Cheap DIY Jet

[yak52driver]

That's up to the builder and what he/she can fit on the panel. There's some sweet GPS setups out there on the market. But in airplanes as in guns, good glass ain't cheap. Any actual aircraft owners care to chime in on care/feeding costs?

Buying glass for an experimental airplane is a lot cheaper than for a production aircraft. A friend of mine recently retrofitted his Bonanza with a G600 glass panel with synthetic vision. I have to admit, it is an awesome IFR airplane with that setup. It has XM weather and traffic avoidance installed, as well. He spent in excess of 50K with installation.

I have another friend that installed a Dynon glass setup in his experimental aircraft and the hardware was less than 4K. Basic stuff, but gives an artificial horizon, heading, airspeed and altitude tapes. If an instrument doesn't have to be FAA/PMA approved (as in installation in an experimental a/c), it is much cheaper. Combine that with a Garmin 496 for about 2k and you have a good VFR airplane. Getting an IFR installation is more expensive, plus you have to have an IFR pitot static test done to certify the altimeter and xpnder to IFR standards. That can run $750 for the test.

My Yak is VFR only, but the pitot static test that is done every 24 months runs about $450. Equating avionics to guns fits, you can spend as much as you want. Hope that adds something useful.

 

[Clux4]

Buying glass for an experimental airplane is a lot cheaper than for a production aircraft. A friend of mine recently retrofitted his Bonanza with a G600 glass panel with synthetic vision. I have to admit, it is an awesome IFR airplane with that setup. It has XM weather and traffic avoidance installed, as well. He spent in excess of 50K with installation.

I have another friend that installed a Dynon glass setup in his experimental aircraft and the hardware was less than 4K. Basic stuff, but gives an artificial horizon, heading, airspeed and altitude tapes. If an instrument doesn't have to be FAA/PMA approved (as in installation in an experimental a/c), it is much cheaper. Combine that with a Garmin 496 for about 2k and you have a good VFR airplane. Getting an IFR installation is more expensive, plus you have to have an IFR pitot static test done to certify the altimeter and xpnder to IFR standards. That can run $750 for the test.

My Yak is VFR only, but the pitot static test that is done every 24 months runs about $450. Equating avionics to guns fits, you can spend as much as you want. Hope that adds something useful.

Yak,
What is your take on auto conversion engines for experimental aircraft. I have read both sides of the arguement and I don't think there is a consensus on the issue.

Clux

 

[yak52driver]

Yak,
What is your take on auto conversion engines for experimental aircraft. I have read both sides of the arguement and I don't think there is a consensus on the issue.

Clux

You're right, auto engine conversions is like a religious debate. The ding against auto engines is they weren't designed to run at 75% power all day long like an aircraft engine. Proponents say they are cheaper than a lycoming, etc. I don't have any direct experience with auto conversions, but there are some new engines for experimental like the Jabaru that I've seen used. Those seem to work okay, takes a fair amount of tweeking to get them to run correctly. One of my former ppl studs is building an RV-something and is putting a Subaru conversion in it, but it will be some time before that is ready to fly. I can tell you the chief mechanic where I work is heavily involved in homebuilts and hates auto conversions. And the debate continues...

 

[Gatordev]

I'm biased: Buy a Lancair Legacy fixed gear and be done with it. $150k, full IFR, glass if you want it, a TRUE 210 ktas @ 15k ft, and at 9 gph. Oh, and sex on the ramp too...not a rivet in the wing.

But at the end of the day, you're still left w/ a very tight cockpit built for two people. Four seats seems to be a better "growth" option, even if you don't have kids, at least you can carry a little more when you're on that XC. Here's my solution:

http://www.lancair.com/Main/evo.html

With the turbine option, of course. Nevermind the price, cruising at 330 knots just seems like a dream. Even if you run the engine at a lower power to "sip" the gas, you're still going over 200 knots. I've never seen one in person, but read some articles about it. It sounds like it flies pretty much like a T-34C w/ a slightly better glide ratio. I'm sure it's smaller inside than a Piper/Beech/whatever, but how much so is one of my questions. Oh, and it's a new plane so who knows how many teething problems it will have.

Nit, have you looked at Glasairs? I knew they were small, but when I finally flew in one a few months ago, I realized there was no way I could travel in that thing. I know you've said you're a "smaller" individual, so it might be something to look at. You can get them w/ an O-320/O-360 that can still get it up to go but "only" sip about 10-12 gal/hour.

 

[A4sForever]

....The BD-5J was really cheap, too, IIRC, until the engines became impossible to get. But still only made in limited numbers.....

One of my squadron mates bought a kit -- I don't think he ever finished it. When the BD-5J was a 'hot' item, a Bede-sponsored company 4-plane toured w/ the BLUES on most of the circuit for one or two summers -- saw 'em once; they actually put on a pretty good show, for what they were ...

 

[scoolbubba]

I actually saw one of these on the ramp at College Station back in advanced, but it was a piston. The guy told me he cruised at 240 true all day and kept the fuel burn under 20GPH; I was pretty impressed. Neat plane.

 

[Gatordev]

I actually saw one of these on the ramp at College Station back in advanced, but it was a piston. The guy told me he cruised at 240 true all day and kept the fuel burn under 20GPH; I was pretty impressed. Neat plane.

See, that's the thing, if a piston is buring 20GPH, why not burn a little more (30-ish) and go the turbine route? I mean, it's all mental masturbation anyway, right? What I haven't been able to find is a cost comparison between piston ownership and turbine ownership (Annual, maint., etc).

 

[CumminsPilot]

But at the end of the day, you're still left w/ a very tight cockpit built for two people. Four seats seems to be a better "growth" option, even if you don't have kids, at least you can carry a little more when you're on that XC. Here's my solution:

http://www.lancair.com/Main/evo.html

With the turbine option, of course. Nevermind the price, cruising at 330 knots just seems like a dream. Even if you run the engine at a lower power to "sip" the gas, you're still going over 200 knots. I've never seen one in person, but read some articles about it. It sounds like it flies pretty much like a T-34C w/ a slightly better glide ratio. I'm sure it's smaller inside than a Piper/Beech/whatever, but how much so is one of my questions. Oh, and it's a new plane so who knows how many teething problems it will have.

Nit, have you looked at Glasairs? I knew they were small, but when I finally flew in one a few months ago, I realized there was no way I could travel in that thing. I know you've said you're a "smaller" individual, so it might be something to look at. You can get them w/ an O-320/O-360 that can still get it up to go but "only" sip about 10-12 gal/hour.

You been reading my profile? I helped design the Evolution. Have about 30 hours in the prototype. It is bigger inside than any Piper/Beech/Whatever. Designed and built to be a true 4-place airplane. 4 x 200 lb MEN, AND full fuel, AND bags. 18:1 glide in feather. With two guys, full fuel, and all our gear, 5000+ fpm climbs are nothing. We had some issues, and I know they're still working them out, but it's an amazing aircraft that I will FOREVER be proud to say I was one of the designers of.

If you EVER get the chance, FLY IT! I think they're still charging $1000/hr for the demo flight, but that's fully refunded when you purchase the kit. HAHAHA.

#4 flew in mid-December. #'s 1,3,4 are turbines, #2 is a piston running the true FADEC Lycoming IE2 540. They sold 4 more on December 30...people spending that money so the govt doesn't get it.

I will NEVER own a certified airplane...there isn't one reason to, IMHO, for private use.

 

[yak52driver]

One of my squadron mates bought a kit -- I don't think he ever finished it. When the BD-5J was a 'hot' item, a Bede-sponsored company 4-plane toured w/ the BLUES on most of the circuit for one or two summers -- saw 'em once; they actually put on a pretty good show, for what they were ...

When I was a kid I got to see the Coors Silver Bullet BD-5J fly at Oshkosh, that was kinda cool. He did a nice job flying that little thing.

 

[Gatordev]

You been reading my profile? I helped design the Evolution. Have about 30 hours in the prototype. It is bigger inside than any Piper/Beech/Whatever. Designed and built to be a true 4-place airplane. 4 x 200 lb MEN, AND full fuel, AND bags. 18:1 glide in feather. With two guys, full fuel, and all our gear, 5000+ fpm climbs are nothing. We had some issues, and I know they're still working them out, but it's an amazing aircraft that I will FOREVER be proud to say I was one of the designers of.

If you EVER get the chance, FLY IT! I think they're still charging $1000/hr for the demo flight, but that's fully refunded when you purchase the kit. HAHAHA.

#4 flew in mid-December. #'s 1,3,4 are turbines, #2 is a piston running the true FADEC Lycoming IE2 540. They sold 4 more on December 30...people spending that money so the govt doesn't get it.

I will NEVER own a certified airplane...there isn't one reason to, IMHO, for private use.

Oh, wow. If I had only known. I was eyeballing the Evo a few months ago, trying to come up with creative ways to afford a multi-hundred thousand dollar airplane. That didn't work out so well.

It's a sharp aircraft, and I know they have some Lancair IV conversions out there w/ Walter engines in them, but for about the same price, it seems like getting an aircraft that was designed for the turbine rather than just converted is better. I didn't realize it was bigger, but I guess years ago having seen a Lancair IV, that makes sense. I'd love to fly one, but then that might just make me more aware of what I'd be missing out on.

 

[CumminsPilot]

Oh, wow. If I had only known. I was eyeballing the Evo a few months ago, trying to come up with creative ways to afford a multi-hundred thousand dollar airplane. That didn't work out so well.

It's a sharp aircraft, and I know they have some Lancair IV conversions out there w/ Walter engines in them, but for about the same price, it seems like getting an aircraft that was designed for the turbine rather than just converted is better. I didn't realize it was bigger, but I guess years ago having seen a Lancair IV, that makes sense. I'd love to fly one, but then that might just make me more aware of what I'd be missing out on.

Latest customer has a little over $1 million into his Evolution. -135A was over $475k by itself. He's a former A6 NFO, btw.

I won't fly in a Prop Jet (IV with the Walter) without the right pilot up front...they've killed a lot of pilots who weren't good enough to fly them...it just wasn't designed for that much power. The Boeing planes are pretty cool though (do an airliners.net search for N752BX), and they have some good pilots flying them too.

 

[Gatordev]

Latest customer has a little over $1 million into his Evolution. -135A was over $475k by itself. He's a former A6 NFO, btw.

I won't fly in a Prop Jet (IV with the Walter) without the right pilot up front...they've killed a lot of pilots who weren't good enough to fly them...it just wasn't designed for that much power. The Boeing planes are pretty cool though (do an airliners.net search for N752BX), and they have some good pilots flying them too.

ONLY a million? Why didn't you say so. Can I buy it over the internet?

So are the Boeing planes a different "mod" of Propjet than the other ones? The engine looks like it's better integrated into the airframe rather than just bolted on like some of the ones I've seen on Trade-a-plane. Life would be so much easier if I had a bunch of money for my various toys...

 

[scoolbubba]

ONLY a million? Why didn't you say so. Can I buy it over the internet?

Life would be so much easier if I had a bunch of money for my various toys...

It really would be.

335i...sailboat...glider...experimental airplane... a safe full of guns...who knows where this will go.

 

[OscarMyers]

Cant figure out if scoolbubba has too many hobbies or is building up a small invasion force.

 

[scoolbubba]

The best defense against the Zombie hoard is a good offense.