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sometimes rio/wso chest pounding is justified
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"This recovery of an aircraft and crew definitely saved Engelbreit’s life. Wilson had the option of ejecting himself safely from the damaged aircraft, but such an ejection would have been fatal for Engelbreit. All four ANG crewmembers were decorated for their exemplary flying skill demonstrated during the rescue."
Good read but didn't the USAF F-4 have command eject? Not a pleasant alternative but not exactly a death sentence.
Right after we got our block 86 Prowlers with command eject I had a pilot say he didn't want it in command eject for an event. Told him (1) It's SOP, NATOPS qualied in the right seat it's in comand (2) It's not about you it's the about the guys in back, we have a new pilot checking on board next week and you're rolling out in a month.:icon_tong
Good read but didn't the USAF F-4 have command eject? Not a pleasant alternative but not exactly a death sentence.
Right after we got our block 86 Prowlers with command eject I had a pilot say he didn't want it in command eject for an event. Told him (1) It's SOP, NATOPS qualied in the right seat it's in comand (2) It's not about you it's the about the guys in back, we have a new pilot checking on board next week and you're rolling out in a month.:icon_tong
command eject
certainly an option but,
a. the pilot in all probability was in a less than optimun posture to be ejected.
b. it might reasonably have been assumed by the wso that the pilot's seat was seriously damaged.
c. the pilot's canopy might also have been damaged by the bird strike which might have had an adverse effect on canopy separation.
certainly an option but,
a. the pilot in all probability was in a less than optimun posture to be ejected.
b. it might reasonably have been assumed by the wso that the pilot's seat was seriously damaged.
c. the pilot's canopy might also have been damaged by the bird strike which might have had an adverse effect on canopy separation.
Great work by those ANG guys. It's been a long time since I've read that account. I guess we have to lay off the Air Force for at least a week.
P.S. There was a situation in VN when an A-6 B/N brought a flak-damaged Intruder back to the ship when his stick was wounded & couldn't fly it. I can't remember exactly how this one concluded. Obviously, the B/N didn't make an arrested landing, but maybe they were both able to eject by the ship. Does A4s or anyone else serving then remember how this one ended.
P.S. There was a situation in VN when an A-6 B/N brought a flak-damaged Intruder back to the ship when his stick was wounded & couldn't fly it. I can't remember exactly how this one concluded. Obviously, the B/N didn't make an arrested landing, but maybe they were both able to eject by the ship. Does A4s or anyone else serving then remember how this one ended.
All true for sure.
Two words: Bryan Westin (actually, I think he spelled his name 'Brian')
From the citation (and he was "only a Reserve JG" at the time
):
Westin, Bryan Edward
Lieutenant, Junior Grade, U.S. Navy
Attack Squadron EIGHTY FIVE (VA-85), U.S.S. Kitty Hawk (CVA-63)
Date of Action: 27 April 1966
Citation:
The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Lieutenant, Junior Grade Brian Edward Westin (NSN: 0-666503), United States Naval (Reserve), for extraordinary heroism on 27 April 1966 while serving as a Bombardier/Navigator in Attack Squadron EIGHTY-FIVE (VA-85) during a combat mission over North Vietnam. When his pilot was seriously wounded and partially incapacitated during a daylight bombing run, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin, by calmly coaxing and physically assisting him in the control of the aircraft, succeeded in reaching the open sea where he made sure that the semiconscious pilot ejected safely before he, himself, exited the plane. The first to be picked up by rescue helicopter, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin directed the crew to the estimated position of his pilot. When the latter was unable to enter the rescue sling because of his injuries, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin re-entered the water to assist him despite the fact that a shark was spotted near the bleeding victim. Following the rescue of the pilot, and before his own retrieval, the hoisting device aboard the helicopter malfunctioned. Realizing the urgency of immediate medical attention for the now unconscious pilot, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin waved the helicopter off and remained in the shark-infested water until the arrival of a second rescue helicopter five minutes later. Through his quick thinking, cool courage, and selflessness in the face of grave personal risk, he was directly responsible for saving the life of his pilot. His heroic efforts were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
I later flew a couple of hops w/ him in the RAG. Personally, I think (we all did) he rated consideration for the MH. In any case, he's another example of when a good B/N is worth his weight in GOLD.
From the citation (and he was "only a Reserve JG" at the time
):
Westin, Bryan Edward
Lieutenant, Junior Grade, U.S. Navy
Attack Squadron EIGHTY FIVE (VA-85), U.S.S. Kitty Hawk (CVA-63)
Date of Action: 27 April 1966
Citation:
The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Lieutenant, Junior Grade Brian Edward Westin (NSN: 0-666503), United States Naval (Reserve), for extraordinary heroism on 27 April 1966 while serving as a Bombardier/Navigator in Attack Squadron EIGHTY-FIVE (VA-85) during a combat mission over North Vietnam. When his pilot was seriously wounded and partially incapacitated during a daylight bombing run, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin, by calmly coaxing and physically assisting him in the control of the aircraft, succeeded in reaching the open sea where he made sure that the semiconscious pilot ejected safely before he, himself, exited the plane. The first to be picked up by rescue helicopter, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin directed the crew to the estimated position of his pilot. When the latter was unable to enter the rescue sling because of his injuries, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin re-entered the water to assist him despite the fact that a shark was spotted near the bleeding victim. Following the rescue of the pilot, and before his own retrieval, the hoisting device aboard the helicopter malfunctioned. Realizing the urgency of immediate medical attention for the now unconscious pilot, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin waved the helicopter off and remained in the shark-infested water until the arrival of a second rescue helicopter five minutes later. Through his quick thinking, cool courage, and selflessness in the face of grave personal risk, he was directly responsible for saving the life of his pilot. His heroic efforts were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
I later flew a couple of hops w/ him in the RAG. Personally, I think (we all did) he rated consideration for the MH. In any case, he's another example of when a good B/N is worth his weight in GOLD.
Two words: Bryan Westin
From the citation (and he was "only a Reserve JG" at the time
Westin, Bryan Edward
Lieutenant, Junior Grade, U.S. Navy
Attack Squadron EIGHTY FIVE (VA-85), U.S.S. Kitty Hawk (CVA-63)
Date of Action: 27 April 1966
Citation:
The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Lieutenant, Junior Grade Brian Edward Westin (NSN: 0-666503), United States Naval (Reserve), for extraordinary heroism on 27 April 1966 while serving as a Bombardier/Navigator in Attack Squadron EIGHTY-FIVE (VA-85) during a combat mission over North Vietnam. When his pilot was seriously wounded and partially incapacitated during a daylight bombing run, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin, by calmly coaxing and physically assisting him in the control of the aircraft, succeeded in reaching the open sea where he made sure that the semiconscious pilot ejected safely before he, himself, exited the plane. The first to be picked up by rescue helicopter, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin directed the crew to the estimated position of his pilot. When the latter was unable to enter the rescue sling because of his injuries, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin re-entered the water to assist him despite the fact that a shark was spotted near the bleeding victim. Following the rescue of the pilot, and before his own retrieval, the hoisting device aboard the helicopter malfunctioned. Realizing the urgency of immediate medical attention for the now unconscious pilot, Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Westin waved the helicopter off and remained in the shark-infested water until the arrival of a second rescue helicopter five minutes later. Through his quick thinking, cool courage, and selflessness in the face of grave personal risk, he was directly responsible for saving the life of his pilot. His heroic efforts were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
I later flew a couple of hops w/ him in the RAG. Personally, I think (we all did) he rated consideration for the MH. In any case, he's another example of when a good B/N is worth his weight in GOLD.
Then I guess he exceeded the "male secretary" standard? See: some do, sometime.
Two words: Bryan Westin
From the citation (and he was "only a Reserve JG" at the time
I later flew a couple of hops w/ him in the RAG. Personally, I think (we all did) he rated consideration for the MH. In any case, he's another example of when a good B/N is worth his weight in GOLD.
I cannot picture why that didn't deserve the CMH. Truly an inspiration.
After spending > 20K hours in a variety of multi-crew environments, the 'good crew' concept has always been integral to the proper care & feeding of mission requirements on many different types of aircraft. I've never doubted it for a moment -- have you ???
If they wanted to (and most did), I'd let my B/N's fly around the bounce pattern and do a kind of "modified" FCLP when we owned the pattern. The drill: just get the bird dirty & trimmed up, turn on the auto-throttles, and let the boy go as he leaned over the center console to grab the stick w/ his left hand and fly ... it was fun and it helped w/ a warm & fuzzy 'feeling' in the side-by-side cockpit that was the A-6 'office'.
A couple could have gotten the aircraft back on the deck in extremis -- 'deck' as in field, not ship -- not a doubt in my mind.
Since you asked so nicely, here's the Westerman/Westin story from a bird's-eye perspective, penned by the B/N in Buckeye One:
Westerman / Westin Saga
One afternoon CDR Ron Hays, CO VA-85, and myself in Buckeye 1, and LT Bill Westerman and LTJG Brian Westin in Buckeye 2 were scheduled for road recce in Route Package 2 in North Vietnam, armed with MK-82s. Just prior to manning aircraft, a report came into the ship that a bunch of barges were massed up near the mouth of the Vinh River.
The staff (CTF-77), being short of TacAir experience, went ballistic and changed our flight's target to these massed barges, and our ordnance load to NAPALM, of all things. In those days a NAPALM drop had to be executed at a very low altitude and airspeed in order to ensure detonation. We screamed bloody murder about our ordnance change (the target was great!), but to no avail and so we launched on the one and only NAPALM mission (as far as 1 know) north of Route Package 1 in North Vietnam.
The launch and join up were normal with only one small problem with Buckeye 2. Brian's radio system evidently had a short somewhere in the circuit and every time he pressed the ICS button he transmitted on the UHF. This was considered a minor annoyance so we pressed on to the target.
The briefed target tactic was that once the run was commenced, Westy would assume a loose trail position and make his own independent run. We were then to rendezvous over the water and proceed back to marshal. We got the target area, which was only 2 or 3 miles inland, and the barges were there, as briefed, ready for the slaughter. We made our run (all ordnance on target, of course) and pulled off left to head out to the rendezvous area. At this point we heard Brian ask "Are you hit"? Ron and I looked at each other, thinking he was asking us if we were hit and he was telling us something we didn't know.
Just as we started to reply, Brian made his MAYDAY call stating that the pilot was hit and HE WAS FLYING THE AIRPLANE out to feet wet. Brian was flying from the right seat! Of course the flying was a little erratic, but effective, and we made a join up with them in a loose formation at about 7,000 feet over the water.
A single rifle bullet, about the size of a 30-30, had entered the aircraft through the lower left aft portion of the canopy and gone through Westy's shoulder. It probably would have been a clean wound, but the bullet shattered against Westy's Koch parachute fastener and ripped his whole left chest open. Westy was able to fly the airplane to feet wet but Westy's left arm and hand were completely immobilized, so he told Brian to take over the stick while Westy used his right hand to manipulate the throttles. Brian was a very busy boy at this point trying to fly, communicate, and take care of Westy. At this point, Westy was experiencing cycles of tunnel vision. His vision would blur and narrow down to a constricted tunnel and then expand back to normal. Finally, Brian remembered he had a miniature of the Flight Surgeon's brandy in his nav bag. He broke this open and fed it to Westy who revived enough at this point to realize he had better do something quick. He told Brian to eject. But Brian chose to wait until Westy ejected. Westy then jettisoned the canopy and ejected. By the time Brian got himself ready for ejection, the airplane had gone on about 5 or 6 miles.
Meanwhile, back in Buckeye 1, I switched to guard and broadcast a MAYDAY with our location which was about 10 miles east of Tiger Island. Red Crown answered immediately and got the SAR helo on the way. We were still flying a loose formation and saw the canopy separate from Buckeye 2. We saw one ejection, lost the parachute, but finally picked up a raft and circled it. Since Ron and I had only seen one ejection we assumed that Westy had gone in with the airplane. What really happened was we saw Westy's ejection, lost him, and then picked up Brian in his raft thinking the whole time that it was the same person!
At this point, the SAR SPAD flight arrived on the scene. The SARCAP was VA-115 ARABS -- (note: they squadron later morphed into an A-6 squadron and today they're still flying as a VFA-'Ron ... VFA-115 "Eagles") -- from CAG 13 on Kitty Hawk. They were the last SPAD squadron to deploy to North Vietnam, prior to their transition to A-6A. The flight leader was LCDR Cliff Johns who relieved us as SAR Commander. He located Brian in his raft and vectored the helo in for pickup. We watched Brian's rescue. The helo pilot then came on the air to say he had successfully rescued Brian, and that Brian said the pilot had ejected before him. This was the first indication we had that Westy was still alive.
Naturally an intensive search by all the aircraft in the area was set up to find Westy. After about 5 minutes. Cliff Johns saw a tracer cross his nose, dropped down and there was Westy. What happened was that Westy, after he got in the water and out of his chute, was unable to locate his raft. (It was lost in the ejection). Westy had tucked his dead arm under the lap belt to keep it from flailing and thinks this action may have inadvertently jettisoned his raft). In the meantime, he's watching all these planes and helos flying all over the Tonkin Gulf, but none are anywhere near him. Getting desperate, Westy somehow managed to get his pencil flare out and get it armed with one round. He vowed to shoot down the first plane that came in range. When Cliff set out to find Westy, he happened to fly right over Westy who aimed his pencil flare directly at Cliff and that was the tracer Cliff saw.
The helo was vectored in over Westy posthaste and the sling was dropped for pickup. Westy had been bleeding profusely and was in the middle of a pool of blood. Due to his wound Westy was unable to get into the sling. The helo did not have a swimmer on board, and Brian, who by this time had stripped off his torso harness and was wearing only his "G" suit and flight suit ordered the sling operator to lower him into the water. Brian then got Westy into the sling and Westy was brought on board the helo successfully. When they tried to lower the sling to pick up Brian the winch jammed and could not be operated. Westy was in desperate need of medical attention, so Brian waved the helo off and the helo called in the backup helo and went back to Red Crown, leaving Brian in the bloody water. He used his "G" suit as a flotation device by unzipping it and manually blowing it up. Sharks had been sighted in the area and Brian floated in that bloody pool of water for an eternity (in reality about fifteen minutes) until the backup helo picked him up and returned him to Kitty Hawk.
Westy had a lengthy and painful recovery, but went on to retire as a Captain, logging over 1,000 carrier landings and commanding an LPH. Brian Westin went on to a career in EA'6Bs and was awarded a Navy Cross for his heroic actions in this incident.
Westerman / Westin Saga
One afternoon CDR Ron Hays, CO VA-85, and myself in Buckeye 1, and LT Bill Westerman and LTJG Brian Westin in Buckeye 2 were scheduled for road recce in Route Package 2 in North Vietnam, armed with MK-82s. Just prior to manning aircraft, a report came into the ship that a bunch of barges were massed up near the mouth of the Vinh River.
The staff (CTF-77), being short of TacAir experience, went ballistic and changed our flight's target to these massed barges, and our ordnance load to NAPALM, of all things. In those days a NAPALM drop had to be executed at a very low altitude and airspeed in order to ensure detonation. We screamed bloody murder about our ordnance change (the target was great!), but to no avail and so we launched on the one and only NAPALM mission (as far as 1 know) north of Route Package 1 in North Vietnam.
The launch and join up were normal with only one small problem with Buckeye 2. Brian's radio system evidently had a short somewhere in the circuit and every time he pressed the ICS button he transmitted on the UHF. This was considered a minor annoyance so we pressed on to the target.
The briefed target tactic was that once the run was commenced, Westy would assume a loose trail position and make his own independent run. We were then to rendezvous over the water and proceed back to marshal. We got the target area, which was only 2 or 3 miles inland, and the barges were there, as briefed, ready for the slaughter. We made our run (all ordnance on target, of course) and pulled off left to head out to the rendezvous area. At this point we heard Brian ask "Are you hit"? Ron and I looked at each other, thinking he was asking us if we were hit and he was telling us something we didn't know.
Just as we started to reply, Brian made his MAYDAY call stating that the pilot was hit and HE WAS FLYING THE AIRPLANE out to feet wet. Brian was flying from the right seat! Of course the flying was a little erratic, but effective, and we made a join up with them in a loose formation at about 7,000 feet over the water.
A single rifle bullet, about the size of a 30-30, had entered the aircraft through the lower left aft portion of the canopy and gone through Westy's shoulder. It probably would have been a clean wound, but the bullet shattered against Westy's Koch parachute fastener and ripped his whole left chest open. Westy was able to fly the airplane to feet wet but Westy's left arm and hand were completely immobilized, so he told Brian to take over the stick while Westy used his right hand to manipulate the throttles. Brian was a very busy boy at this point trying to fly, communicate, and take care of Westy. At this point, Westy was experiencing cycles of tunnel vision. His vision would blur and narrow down to a constricted tunnel and then expand back to normal. Finally, Brian remembered he had a miniature of the Flight Surgeon's brandy in his nav bag. He broke this open and fed it to Westy who revived enough at this point to realize he had better do something quick. He told Brian to eject. But Brian chose to wait until Westy ejected. Westy then jettisoned the canopy and ejected. By the time Brian got himself ready for ejection, the airplane had gone on about 5 or 6 miles.
Meanwhile, back in Buckeye 1, I switched to guard and broadcast a MAYDAY with our location which was about 10 miles east of Tiger Island. Red Crown answered immediately and got the SAR helo on the way. We were still flying a loose formation and saw the canopy separate from Buckeye 2. We saw one ejection, lost the parachute, but finally picked up a raft and circled it. Since Ron and I had only seen one ejection we assumed that Westy had gone in with the airplane. What really happened was we saw Westy's ejection, lost him, and then picked up Brian in his raft thinking the whole time that it was the same person!
At this point, the SAR SPAD flight arrived on the scene. The SARCAP was VA-115 ARABS -- (note: they squadron later morphed into an A-6 squadron and today they're still flying as a VFA-'Ron ... VFA-115 "Eagles") -- from CAG 13 on Kitty Hawk. They were the last SPAD squadron to deploy to North Vietnam, prior to their transition to A-6A. The flight leader was LCDR Cliff Johns who relieved us as SAR Commander. He located Brian in his raft and vectored the helo in for pickup. We watched Brian's rescue. The helo pilot then came on the air to say he had successfully rescued Brian, and that Brian said the pilot had ejected before him. This was the first indication we had that Westy was still alive.
Naturally an intensive search by all the aircraft in the area was set up to find Westy. After about 5 minutes. Cliff Johns saw a tracer cross his nose, dropped down and there was Westy. What happened was that Westy, after he got in the water and out of his chute, was unable to locate his raft. (It was lost in the ejection). Westy had tucked his dead arm under the lap belt to keep it from flailing and thinks this action may have inadvertently jettisoned his raft). In the meantime, he's watching all these planes and helos flying all over the Tonkin Gulf, but none are anywhere near him. Getting desperate, Westy somehow managed to get his pencil flare out and get it armed with one round. He vowed to shoot down the first plane that came in range. When Cliff set out to find Westy, he happened to fly right over Westy who aimed his pencil flare directly at Cliff and that was the tracer Cliff saw.
The helo was vectored in over Westy posthaste and the sling was dropped for pickup. Westy had been bleeding profusely and was in the middle of a pool of blood. Due to his wound Westy was unable to get into the sling. The helo did not have a swimmer on board, and Brian, who by this time had stripped off his torso harness and was wearing only his "G" suit and flight suit ordered the sling operator to lower him into the water. Brian then got Westy into the sling and Westy was brought on board the helo successfully. When they tried to lower the sling to pick up Brian the winch jammed and could not be operated. Westy was in desperate need of medical attention, so Brian waved the helo off and the helo called in the backup helo and went back to Red Crown, leaving Brian in the bloody water. He used his "G" suit as a flotation device by unzipping it and manually blowing it up. Sharks had been sighted in the area and Brian floated in that bloody pool of water for an eternity (in reality about fifteen minutes) until the backup helo picked him up and returned him to Kitty Hawk.
Westy had a lengthy and painful recovery, but went on to retire as a Captain, logging over 1,000 carrier landings and commanding an LPH. Brian Westin went on to a career in EA'6Bs and was awarded a Navy Cross for his heroic actions in this incident.
Wow,
Makes it through all that only to be felled by CJD. FWIW, that is the human version of mad cow disease.
Makes it through all that only to be felled by CJD. FWIW, that is the human version of mad cow disease.
Westin/Westy
I agree, as I read the Citation (& before I read your comment above), I thought "If that isn't MOH worthy, what is?").:thumbup_1
Believe his wounded Pilot was the late CAPT Bill "Westy" Westerman, a NAVCAD classmate of mine, and good friend. We were winged together at the same ceremony on 3 July 1958, at NAAS Chase Field TX. I was in WestPac at the time of the A-6 incident and we got the news right away. Seriously wounded, Bill was hospitalized for six months, but was eventually returned to flying status, retiring from his outstanding 30-year career, following his deep-draft command in USS INCHON. Westy passed away in Oct. 2010.:captain_1
Edit: Oops, posted this before I saw Post #10.
BzB
]I later flew a couple of hops w/ him in the RAG. Personally, I think (we all did) he rated consideration for the MH. In any case, he's another example of when a good B/N is worth his weight in GOLD.
I agree, as I read the Citation (& before I read your comment above), I thought "If that isn't MOH worthy, what is?").:thumbup_1
Believe his wounded Pilot was the late CAPT Bill "Westy" Westerman, a NAVCAD classmate of mine, and good friend. We were winged together at the same ceremony on 3 July 1958, at NAAS Chase Field TX. I was in WestPac at the time of the A-6 incident and we got the news right away. Seriously wounded, Bill was hospitalized for six months, but was eventually returned to flying status, retiring from his outstanding 30-year career, following his deep-draft command in USS INCHON. Westy passed away in Oct. 2010.:captain_1
Edit: Oops, posted this before I saw Post #10.
BzB
Absolutely, dropping 'nape' anywhere in NVN was near suicide, but that was early in the air war & the "hard bloody lessons", had yet to be learned, both on the Flag Staff, & unknown, faceless (read clueless) targeteers in Disneyland East. At about the same time frame, our Air Wing Atkrons were also loading Napalm for NVN targets. After a couple of days of near misses and holed/damaged A/C, CAG pled no mas to Ship's CO & the Flag staff. The RANGER CO, CAPT Leo "Cuddles" McCuddin concurred & Staff acquiesced. Cuddles saiid he hated the mixing, filling tanks, loading, launching & recovery with nape, as a tremendous & unacceptable fire hazard on HIS ship (and that was prior to the 3 disaterous CVA fires). Pilots hated it as the tank was so unstable upon release, to have acceptable accuracy, had to release at or below 500' AGL!:icon_trou
To my knowledge, nape was never again used in CVA NVN Ops, in fact, the edict came down soon after, NO pullouts below 3,000' AGL in NVN attacks. The only exception was RESCAP OPS for protecting downed aiircrew w/ guns, rockets, or "SnakeEye" bombs (or empty rocket pods/drop tanks, bomb racks, spears, stones.... etc. if out of ordnance!).:icon_rage
BzB:sleep_125