Has The Navy Gone Geedunk Crazy?

[Redux]

Just curious, at one time The Navy Achievement Medal actually meant something. Now it seems damn near everybody and his mother has "earned" one. If memory serves me correctly 2 per command were to be awarded per year, (really taxing my memory here) On many boards that I frequent folks use their ribbon racks as avatars, from E-4 to O-3 there are 4 or 5 rows of ribbons earned. No way in hell are there that many Audie Murphy's out there, help me out a bit on this one.

 

[VMO4]

I have my father's ribbons, 1942-1953, Atlantic anti sub cruise with VC8 during the war, later a med cruise on the Fruitty Roo, 11 years, about 4000 hours, total of six ribbons, times have changed.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

some depends on the command, I had one DH who's policy for pretty much any award was >O-3 no higher than NCM, CPO to O-3 no higher than NAM, up to E-6 no higher than letter of commendation.

I will say in general the aviation CO's I worked for or worked around were much more apt to give out the max awards they could, when I went through my CPO initiation the airwing CPO selectees had a lot more NAM/NCM's than us non aviation types.

 

[robav8r]

Geesh - did you guys just wake up from a long winters nap? Everyone gets a trophy/ribbon/attaboy/medal from about third grade all the way through adulthood these days. Seriously though, we've kind of painted ourselves into a corner on this one. If you try and tighten up your awards program to make them "mean" more, you run the risk of making the Sailor less competitive compared to his/her peers for promotion, special programs, etc. While not as "flashy" as a piece of flare you can wear on your chest, nothing obviously beats a powerfuly written eval/fitrep. My .02c

 

[Renegade One]

Geesh - did you guys just wake up from a long winters nap? Everyone gets a "Juice Box" from about third grade all the way through adulthood these days.

FIFY.

Seriously…it was the whole "EOT Medal" thingie that led us astray. If you didn't/don't get a medal…you clearly sucked/failed somehow.

If you try and tighten up your awards program to make them "mean" more, you run the risk of making the Sailor less competitive compared to his/her peers for promotion, special programs, etc.

I agree with Rob…I don't know how to back out of this rat hole without harming folks. It would take CNO or SECNAV to issue an "Admin Awards Time Out" directive…but to what end?

While not as "flashy" as a piece of flare you can wear on your chest, nothing obviously beats a powerfuly written eval/fitrep. My .02c

Well, let's hope.
.

 

[smoke_screen]

Exactly. Medals are relative.

 

[Redux]

Way back when it was apparent with the Air Force having a NCO Academy ribbon , I thought it was stupid but the Marines seemed to follow up with NAM's for making it to work on time. Google Brad err Chelsea Manning..... it was awarded 5 before going to the brig. What was deserved is now cheapened to nothing. Note what's glaringly obvious? Granted I'm a crusty old bastard and when I pulled the plug 21 years ago these rates didn't even exist!

 

[Redux]

I have my father's ribbons, 1942-1953, Atlantic anti sub cruise with VC8 during the war, later a med cruise on the Fruitty Roo, 11 years, about 4000 hours, total of six ribbons, times have changed.

Note my avatar, bombardier top row right with my boyish good looks. 15th AF out of Cerignola, Italy with 35 missions over target. He may have had 6 from what I remember that included ONE each hard won DFC & Air Medal .

Obviously Pandora's box is opened question is do they even want to close it? Maybe it's a recruiting tool, I dunno.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Way back when it was apparent with the Air Force having a NCO Academy ribbon , I thought it was stupid but the Marines seemed to follow up with NAM's for making it to work on time. Google Brad err Chelsea Manning..... it was awarded 5 before going to the brig. What was deserved is now cheapened to nothing. Note what's glaringly obvious? Granted I'm a crusty old bastard and when I pulled the plug 21 years ago these rates didn't even exist!

These two rates did in fact exist back then, but the pictures showing the ribbons tell the best story, back 20 years ago you normally didn't see people with that many rows.

On the cheapening part, you can add in ESWS and EAWS, both used to be voluntary, it was something to help set people apart, now it is just another tick mark on the path, hell I failed my first ESWS board because I missed 2 questions! my board was 5 CPO's all asking questions, this was back when it was not mandatory.

 

[Redux]

These two rates did in fact exist back then, but the pictures showing the ribbons tell the best story, back 20 years ago you normally didn't see people with that many rows.

On the cheapening part, you can add in ESWS and EAWS, both used to be voluntary, it was something to help set people apart, now it is just another tick mark on the path, hell I failed my first ESWS board because I missed 2 questions! my board was 5 CPO's all asking questions, this was back when it was not mandatory.

I don't remember either rate but I certainly believe you. As far as the SW, AW et al "wing or dolphin" like insignias..... what good is window dressing if everybody sports it?

 

[Novaspike]

The majority of ribbons I have are unit awards. I have a single NAM, the rest have come from deployments.

Thinking about the warfare pins, making them mandatory doesn't have to cheapen them. Looking at dolphins, they're 'required', and from people I've talked to, it's not a rubber stamp process.

 

[Renegade One]

Note what's glaringly obvious?

I didn't pick up on it…ratings aside. Is it the three hash marks with gold stripes? I know the hashmark rules have altered…no longer recall what each means…I think they USED to mean 4 years…is it now 3? Relationship to stars on GCMs and gold stripes?

 

[nittany03]

Speaking of Air Medals . . . Why do we use the same medal for two different things? It was originally supposed to be a Bronze Star equivalent, and is in the precedence order as such. Then we got the bright idea to award both individual and strike/flight Air Medals. So you get a gold number for no-shit heroism and a bronze number for turning enough circles over Afghanistan. Why isn't it a "strike/flight ribbon?" That would make more sense.

I realize that those who flew in more contested airspace in times past (Vietnam/Desert Storm/OEF I) had a hell of a lot harder time getting those strike/flight points, but still. It's an odd way of doing things.

 

[Renegade One]

Speaking of Air Medals . . . Why do we use the same medal for two different things? It was originally supposed to be a Bronze Star equivalent, and is in the precedence order as such. Then we got the bright idea to award both individual and strike/flight Air Medals. So you get a gold number for no-shit heroism and a bronze number for turning enough circles over Afghanistan. Why isn't it a "strike/flight ribbon?" That would make more sense.

I realize that those who flew in more contested airspace in times past (Vietnam/Desert Storm/OEF I) had a hell of a lot harder time getting those strike/flight points, but still. It's an odd way of doing things.

Don't have a single one of either…so anyone who opines "R1: You're out of your swim lane (again…)", fair enough. But…

I actually think the AM is fairly well managed. Strike/Flight points? Check. That probably best harkens back to the original intent: "Repeated combat exposure is a form of heroism all unto itself". I think that needs to be recognized. And is.

For the record, just to show what a "nanny nanny boo-boo" I am..my logbook reveals (in green ink) exactly TWO "strike/flight points" for designated combat ops". One on 29 April, 1975 for my CAP mission over Saigon during "Operation FREQUENT WIND", and the second on 15 May, 1975, for a fighter CAP over Koh Tang Island during the rescue/recovery of the crew and ship SS MAYAGUEZ.

"Individual Action (e.g.: No Shit Heroism)" awards? Check. Says something very different about the honoree.

Any award for combat ops or exposure not delivered "posthumously" is a good thing. Stand tall.

 

[PropAddict]

Guys, you're missing the point.

If we don't give NAMs and COMs out to the shore duty YNs and PSs for filing travel claims and making coffee, our pay and benefits will be AFU for months to come.

Logically, then, we have to give the same awards to ADs who work 9 hours on an engine change or ABs who spend 12 hours at a clip sweating on the roof because by comparison, well, they've worked so much harder.