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NEWS Air Force leadership talks frankly about pilot retention

sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Quaint ideas from yesteryear
pilot
Recovering LSO said:
We Ask Too Much of Our Air Force Pilots* Not even sure what to say about this....


*You can get five free articles a month by registering with email address.
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Wow, if he had used the word operator any more, I might have exploded in my pants. Cover up, Capt. USAF. Your SEAL envy is showing.

God forbid the USAF actually ask their officers to lead. After all, they can only handle one thing at a time- we wouldn't want to overtask the poor darlings. Meanwhile his Navy bretheren are slaying ISIS, tanking at night, deterring pirates, slinging cargo, taking hostile fire, patrolling contested waters, landing on the Boat, in shit weather, at night, and still somehow tracking DRRS-N, haggling over E-5 evals and EOT awards, or trying to ensure the squadron doesn't fail CWTPI or the next NATOPS unit eval. Where do we find such men? ;)

Capt. Entitled was right about one thing though: The USAF has a culture problem.
 
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IKE

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
Maybe I read too much into it, but I think the Capt wants to see an ascension of the non-pilots to new positions and the "we ask them to do too much" argument is his angle.

He didn't once mention that personnel leadership and management are subordinate to MISSION decisions, which is why the services put operators in command. Why do you think it's call "commander," as opposed to "leader" or "manager?"
 
zippy

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Recovering LSO said:
https://www.airforcetimes.com/artic...ut-13-year-455-000-bonuses-for-fighter-pilots

$450k for 13 years.

I think the best feature is not the sums of money, but what appears to be the variable terms.

Your move Navy.
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With this type of bonus structure you'll get guys who were planning to stay in for the long haul taking the 13 year option and the guys planning on getting out taking the option shortest to allow them to get back to flying orders so they can leave current because they're too afraid or proud to go to the regionals first.

The dollar amount is likely too small to move a significant # of folks on the fence or those looking to getting out...

$35k a year is an extra $69/day after taxes... not a shabby amount but Delta and FedEx have CA upgrades available within in 24 months for folks who get hired on with them... there's a lot of temptation to go to the airlines.

The number I'm thinking it would take to create a sizeable paradigm shift in folks interested in staying is $75k a year.
 
RHINOWSO

RHINOWSO

"Yeah, we are going to need to see that one again"
None
Yeah, the only ones taking the bonuses were the ones who were gonna stay anyway.
 
RHINOWSO

RHINOWSO

"Yeah, we are going to need to see that one again"
None
And with the airlines pilot shortage only getting worse, this problem is only going to get worse.
 
HuggyU2

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
sevenhelmet said:
God forbid the USAF actually ask their officers to lead. After all, they can only handle one thing at a time- we wouldn't want to overtask the poor darlings.
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While I agree the USAF has a culture problem in many areas, I take exception to your comment, based on what I saw, and who my leaders were, during my 28 years of active service.

Yes, there are significant difference between our Services: I knew it early on, and I learned a lot more from my many friends that did the IST over to the U-2 side of the house. But in some cases, it is apples-to-oranges. The AF is not the Navy. And the Navy is not the AF.

The article's author is but one of 61,000 AF officers. I agree with very little he wrote in the article, and believe his perspective is off.

Irrespective of that, and back to the root of this thread, many (including me) believe there is a significant lack of mission focus in the AF. Many pilots I know would stay in longer if the USAF could bring back the job satisfaction that I felt as an O-3. But the decreased QOL combines with all of the above..., and aircrew pitch out of the fight. Could this sentiment be shared with my Naval and Marine Brothers-in-Arms?

For the sake of American military might, I hope the Navy and Marines fare better in their aircrew retention. But based on what I've seen and heard, they might need to get the Flags to sit down and lead-turn this issue. Now.
 
BACONATOR

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
huggyu2 said:
While I agree the USAF has a culture problem in many areas, I take exception to your comment, based on what I saw, and who my leaders were, during my 28 years of active service.

Yes, there are significant difference between our Services: I knew it early on, and I learned a lot more from my many friends that did the IST over to the U-2 side of the house. But in some cases, it is apples-to-oranges. The AF is not the Navy. And the Navy is not the AF.

The article's author is but one of 61,000 AF officers. I agree with very little he wrote in the article, and believe his perspective is off.

Irrespective of that, and back to the root of this thread, many (including me) believe there is a significant lack of mission focus in the AF. Many pilots I know would stay in longer if the USAF could bring back the job satisfaction that I felt as an O-3. But the decreased QOL combines with all of the above..., and aircrew pitch out of the fight. Many to the airlines... but not all.

For the sake of American military might, I hope the Navy and Marines fare better in their aircrew retention. But based on what I've seen and heard, they might need to get the Flags to sit down and lead-turn this issue. Now.
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Agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment with my very limited experience on my AF tour. The way Naval aviators poke fun at the Air Force is, ironically, identical to the way SWOs make fun of the aviators in the Navy, a la "look at those poor little darling aviators getting their crew rest! Isn't that sweet! Silly little fly boys going for a hop while we work". It's just jealousy. We wear our asceticism and strife as a badge of honor in the Navy; all designators, instead of addressing the inner dialogue of "why can't we focus our jobs more like the Air Force instead of the bullshit we have to do in the Navy?" (See: dissociated sea tours). Instead of making fun of others for having it better than is, why don't we try to figure out how to make our service and our culture and career paths more amenable to our goals?

That same sentiment would bode well for the flag/general officers instead of trying to soil attempts at going to "the show" or trying to throw money at the problem. The crux is not the airline draw, but rather "why are people leaving"? Those two aren't completely inclusive.
 
J

jtmedli

Well-Known Member
pilot
BACONATOR said:
Agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment with my very limited experience on my AF tour. The way Naval aviators poke fun at the Air Force is, ironically, identical to the way SWOs make fun of the aviators in the Navy, a la "look at those poor little darling aviators getting their crew rest! Isn't that sweet! Silly little fly boys going for a hop while we work". It's just jealousy. We wear our asceticism and strife as a badge of honor in the Navy; all designators, instead of addressing the inner dialogue of "why can't we focus our jobs more like the Air Force instead of the bullshit we have to do in the Navy?" (See: dissociated sea tours). Instead of making fun of others for having it better than is, why don't we try to figure out how to make our service and our culture and career paths more amenable to our goalS.
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This is the point I was trying to make with Spekkio but when the other 1/2 or 2/3 of the Navy doesn't want to listen and wants to quote our O4/5 selection rates to us is when we have a problem that isn't getting solved until operations stop being able to happen because there's not enough aviation to support the need. The other side of that problem is that SWOs run a fair portion of the Navy and when their idea of the problem is "oh the fly boys are just bitching about X or Y again" (see Spekkios post) is when you can pretty much give up any chance of getting anything fixed.
 
sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Quaint ideas from yesteryear
pilot
huggyu2 said:
While I agree the USAF has a culture problem in many areas, I take exception to your comment, based on what I saw, and who my leaders were, during my 28 years of active service.

Yes, there are significant difference between our Services: I knew it early on, and I learned a lot more from my many friends that did the IST over to the U-2 side of the house. But in some cases, it is apples-to-oranges. The AF is not the Navy. And the Navy is not the AF.

The article's author is but one of 61,000 AF officers. I agree with very little he wrote in the article, and believe his perspective is off.

Irrespective of that, and back to the root of this thread, many (including me) believe there is a significant lack of mission focus in the AF. Many pilots I know would stay in longer if the USAF could bring back the job satisfaction that I felt as an O-3. But the decreased QOL combines with all of the above..., and aircrew pitch out of the fight. Could this sentiment be shared with my Naval and Marine Brothers-in-Arms?

For the sake of American military might, I hope the Navy and Marines fare better in their aircrew retention. But based on what I've seen and heard, they might need to get the Flags to sit down and lead-turn this issue. Now.
Click to expand...

My post was intended to poke fun at attitude of the article, most certainly not at everyone in the USAF. I have worked with many people in the USAF who I found to be right-minded, solid folks. I've also seen unfortunate examples of the opposite more close to home in the USN.

My apologies for the ruffled feathers, Huggy. You're absolutely right. You, and quite a few other USAF officers didn't deserve the slight. My sarcasm didn't play as well as I'd hoped. :oops:
 
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RHINOWSO

RHINOWSO

"Yeah, we are going to need to see that one again"
None
I didn't think anyone's feathers ruffled anymore? ;)

I guess the thick skin from VF/VFA days isn't universal. :p
 
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