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Racism in the Military

White on black on yellow on green on red on white on...

Can we all not categorically agree that racism is bad?


Arguing who is worse at being a racist makes one sound like they are defending rascists because, "they aren't as bad as the other people."

"Yeah but they do it too" doesn't make it any better.
 
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Swanee said:
White on black on yellow on green on red on white on...

Can we all not categorically agree that racism is bad?


Arguing who is worse at being a racist makes one sound like they are defending rascists because, "they aren't as bad as the other people."

"Yeah but they do it too" doesn't make it any better.
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I agree, completely. However, for many people, racism is ONLY white vs black. I also agree with an earlier point that the word is way overblown. Makes a great story to use "racism." Racism by definition is a belief in the superiority of the color. Prejudice is definitely a better word that "some" of all races hold. Doesn't make it right. But using words like racism makes it difficult to discuss rationally. That's Nazi Aryan shit. And the media loves that term. And sadly there are some whites in America that believe in that stuff. I've honestly not met one that I'm aware of. I've met prejudiced folks of all races.
 
robav8r said:
While not directly related to racism in the military, I fear this event will stoke the fires of racism and hatred that we'll be dealing with for awhile, regardless of you you are and where you work . . . .
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"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people. "
- William Adama, Battlestar Galactica

This also goes for unnecessarily militarized police. Same end result. You want to keep a patrol rifle in the cruiser, fine. I can have an AR; so can they. If I ever can't have an AR, then neither should they.

But when cops start calling non-cops "civilians," we have a problem. Anyone who's not subject to the UCMJ is a civilian. Police are merely a subset of civilians who We The People have deputized to maintain order, because the rest of us can't do that full-time. Cops aren't above the people they police, whatever their color. They are of the people, and this whole idea of "qualified immunity" is an abomination.
 
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FinkUFreaky said:
However, for many people, racism is ONLY white vs black
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I don't buy that narrative for a second. There may be a few people on the fringes who think that way, but those are the same type of people who say 9/11 was an inside job and Bigfoot is real and Elvis is still alive. I have not met someone in person who thinks that way- and I went to theater school and still maintain contact with the folks I went to college with. They're as liberal as they come. What a professor at Berkeley in the racial studies department says is not "many people."

Racism is bad. Saying "however" or "yeah but" afterward doesn't do anyone any favors.

And trying to thread the needle between prejudice and racist with academic definitions doesn't help either. "I'm sorry, I wasn't being racist, I was only being prejudice." Well, either way, you're being an asshole.
 
Swanee said:
I don't buy that narrative for a second. There may be a few people on the fringes who think that way, but those are the same type of people who say 9/11 was an inside job and Bigfoot is real and Elvis is still alive. I have not met someone in person who thinks that way- and I went to theater school and still maintain contact with the folks I went to college with. They're as liberal as they come. What a professor at Berkeley in the racial studies department says is not "many people."

Racism is bad. Saying "however" or "yeah but" afterward doesn't do anyone any favors.

And trying to thread the needle between prejudice and racist with academic definitions doesn't help either. "I'm sorry, I wasn't being racist, I was only being prejudice." Well, either way, you're being an asshole.
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"many people" was probably a bad choice. Some would have been better. But when I said many, I didn't mean "many African Americans." I meant of all races, including white people.

I don't disagree with you on the being an asshole perspective; prejudice is wrong also. I was just saying that there IS a difference. And nowadays what used to be considered prejudice is largely considered racism. I hated when a CO I didn't love used the words "words have meaning." But there is some reality in that. Did you take my post as being pro-prejudice? Or would you agree that murder is worse than assault, and both are wrong?

Wasn't trying to piss you off dog. I also think words like "however" do have their place. We can agree on a general point (racism is bad in all cases!), and disagree on the specifics of what is racism. And what isn't. And both are wrong, I think we agree....

It's almost like you only read the words that you quoted, instead of my whole post.
 
Swanee said:
I don't buy that narrative for a second. There may be a few people on the fringes who think that way, but those are the same type of people who say 9/11 was an inside job and Bigfoot is real and Elvis is still alive. I have not met someone in person who thinks that way- and I went to theater school and still maintain contact with the folks I went to college with. They're as liberal as they come. What a professor at Berkeley in the racial studies department says is not "many people."

Racism is bad. Saying "however" or "yeah but" afterward doesn't do anyone any favors.

And trying to thread the needle between prejudice and racist with academic definitions doesn't help either. "I'm sorry, I wasn't being racist, I was only being prejudice." Well, either way, you're being an asshole.
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Everyone is prejudiced. It’s the way we’re made, and with good reason.

If you’re walking down the street alone and you see three guys coming towards you of any race dressed like stock brokers, you’ll have different thoughts than three white dudes who look meth’d out or three black dudes who look like gangsters or three teenage girls.
 
nittany03 said:
But when cops start calling non-cops "civilians," we have a problem. Anyone who's not subject to the UCMJ is a civilian. Police are merely a subset of civilians who We The People have deputized to maintain order,
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One can also see this in various warrior-type cultures. NFL players sometimes refer to everyone who hasn’t set foot on a NFL field as a "civilian." Weird to hear as a member of the Armed Services, I know, but they have a culture where performance matters and danger exists, so I guess it helps them deal with their job mentally. I wouldn’t be surprised if the term “civilian” being applied to people who aren't on "your squad” crops up elsewhere outside of the UCMJ, where high performing teams do dangerous jobs (e.g. forest firefighters/ smokejumpers?).
 
FinkUFreaky said:
I agree, completely. However, for many people, racism is ONLY white vs black....
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I agree it is a human condition. It's so easy to focus on the differences. It takes attentional choice to focus on the similarities.

This is a fascinating list of universals that every culture on the planet, with no exceptions, exhibits. I remember thinking about it while sitting in the airport terminal in Nairobi, Addis, or Qatar, watching it all walk by..

 
There is definitely racism in the military. There is definitely racism in the civilian sector.

It is extremely hard to explain what being a minority officer is like.

And someone who isn’t one just wouldn’t understand even if I did try to explain it, so I won’t.
 
Spekkio said:
Nope. Now it's a conversation about Trump inciting violence and censorship on Twitter.
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ah yes one quip is now the “the conversation”
The conversation is about a citizen who was murdered, and whose murderer remains uncharged.

That’s the conversation.
 
nodropinufaka said:
There is definitely racism in the military. There is definitely racism in the civilian sector.

It is extremely hard to explain what being a minority officer is like.

And someone who isn’t one just wouldn’t understand even if I did try to explain it, so I won’t.
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No one is saying there isn’t racism in the military. There is but it’s on an individual basis not an organizational basis.

The whole “wouldn’t understand” thing is BS.

I’m not a minority in the U.S. but I am in Hawaii. I’m not a “local” which means I get treated a lot differently in the non-tourist areas. “Hey Haole, this is a locals beach”, etc.

I was definitely a minority in my high school way back when. 85% black students and about 60% black teachers. Intercity during a time when racial tensions were a lot higher than they are today. Beat up the white guys day was a couple of times a week with full blown race riots every month or so. There were multiple places in the school I couldn’t go and classes I couldnt take. Auto shop, welding, machining, wood shop etc. were all offered but whites were actively discouraged from taking them by the school because the blacks didn’t want us in them. If you did take them, it was a constant verbal and physical confrontation the entire time.

So yeah, white guys can understand.
 
Hair Warrior said:
One can also see this in various warrior-type cultures. NFL players sometimes refer to everyone who hasn’t set foot on a NFL field as a "civilian." Weird to hear as a member of the Armed Services, I know, but they have a culture where performance matters and danger exists, so I guess it helps them deal with their job mentally. I wouldn’t be surprised if the term “civilian” being applied to people who aren't on "your squad” crops up elsewhere outside of the UCMJ, where high performing teams do dangerous jobs (e.g. forest firefighters/ smokejumpers?).
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If you never had the "privilege" of wearing those stupid yellow shirts, spot on guess. Any sort of wildland fire fighting has that kind of mentality, although I cant recall any time they (we) used that exact verbiage to make a distinction. The more specialized (hot shots, smoke jumpers etc.) they are the more pronounced it gets.

What's intersting, and probaly supports your point, is that forest service at large dosent have that culture, just fire.

Everyone wants a sense of belonging, how we define ourselves and groups is in an effort to find that. Sometimes it's good, other times...
gestures broadly
 
nodropinufaka said:
There is definitely racism in the military. There is definitely racism in the civilian sector.

It is extremely hard to explain what being a minority officer is like.

And someone who isn’t one just wouldn’t understand even if I did try to explain it, so I won’t.
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So, what is the value of your statement, then? Do you just want everyone to know you’re aggrieved? If we wouldn’t understand, then how are we supposed to try to make things better? That attitude is kind of a passive aggressive cop out.
 
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