OCS 02Nov20 SNA/SNFO (Pilot/NFO) Board

[TheCoon]

Elon Musk has the same opinion, hiring based on merit.

Can I add this to my resume? “Have been compared to Elon Musk”

Came out to 766 words. And that was a cut from the original 1023 words from the 6,000 character limit from the May board.

Interesting that he gave that advice, I'm curious what the thought process was. I had a similar thought for my first submission to have it be shorter as a disruptive kind of vibe, but got passed over; I think mainly for a lack of relatable content in the motivational statement. I saw the motivational statement form that I had to sign for this board, it was a big block and my statement filled all of it. I wanted to use it all. Every space that I wouldn't use would be a waste of opportunity to let them know why I am ready for the Navy.

Ah you meant 4,500 characters, not words. My fault there.

He told me the 850 worder would not fit and to cut it to 500. I actually ended up at 575ish. He also said I tried to sell myself almost too much, if that is ever a thing. I covered why the Navy should pick me, but didn’t write enough about why I picked the Navy.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Agreed, to an extent, and that’s why I don’t think it’s completely useless. My issue is when people start to drool over the 4.0 who didn’t leave their dorm room, but turn their nose up to the 2.5 who also worked while going to school, who was a student athlete, who learned how to fail, or who experienced any other type of adversity.

Numbers don’t lie, but sometimes they don’t tell the whole story.

I had several candidates who were basically that just went to class had 3.5 to 3.7 GPA didn't work, didn't play sports and they were picked when I saw other who had sub 3 GPA's that were involved in clubs/sports/volunteering that were not picked up, there were non aviation designators.

 

[Triumph_MAC]

LOL it was less that 250 words

Ha!! I would say thats confidence...

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Elon Musk has the same opinion, hiring based on merit.

Yeah... I came across three separate sources that all said the same thing which was to fill ALL available space, and make every sentence sell yourself. Once I heard it from three sources on different platforms and locations saying the same thing I thought that was pretty solid advice and it matched my father's advice who was a 28 year USAF vet who sat on many selection boards.

Came out to 766 words. And that was a cut from the original 1023 words from the 6,000 character limit from the May board.

Interesting that he gave that advice, I'm curious what the thought process was. I had a similar thought for my first submission to have it be shorter as a disruptive kind of vibe, but got passed over; I think mainly for a lack of relatable content in the motivational statement. I saw the motivational statement form that I had to sign for this board, it was a big block and my statement filled all of it. I wanted to use it all. Every space that I wouldn't use would be a waste of opportunity to let them know why I am ready for the Navy.

If filling out for NROTC, LDO, CWO or other "internal" type selection boards I would give the same advice. There is a difference between those types of boards and new accession boards (those on AD applying for OCS fall under "new accession boards"). The other thing is things are much different in the USN than the USAF, and the USN is different than the USMC. The USMC boards put a big emphasis on the PFT, I had a candidate with a PFAR of 8 who was not selected by the USMC as his PFT was something like 270? he was picked up USN though.

 

[Ghost SWO]

If filling out for NROTC, LDO, CWO or other "internal" type selection boards I would give the same advice. There is a difference between those types of boards and new accession boards (those on AD applying for OCS fall under "new accession boards"). The other thing is things are much different in the USN than the USAF, and the USN is different than the USMC. The USMC boards put a big emphasis on the PFT, I had a candidate with a PFAR of 8 who was not selected by the USMC as his PFT was something like 270? he was picked up USN though.

Very true, the Army was heavy on their PFT for promotions like the Marines.

Absolutely, I took advice from three branches of pilots and smashed them together. I took consistencies between them and used that for my statement. If one branch was specific and wasn't corroborated with another branch I left that advice out from the writing process.

 

[Coriolanus]

Then on the contrary I've seen a an applicant at 68 8/8/8 apply only for NFO and not get selected. Lots of things going on in the background that we don't know I think. I don't think he applied again after that...

I just assume if someone has triple sevens or higher, decent gpa and OAR, then they had a medical or drug issue that couldn’t get taken care of. I could be wrong but I feel like that would make the most sense.

 

[TheCoon]

I had several candidates who were basically that just went to class had 3.5 to 3.7 GPA didn't work, didn't play sports and they were picked when I saw other who had sub 3 GPA's that were involved in clubs/sports/volunteering that were not picked up, there were non aviation designators.

For certain positions I get weighing GPA heavily, and probably agree with it. But a majority of the time I think it’s overvalued, that’s all.

Also, this is really my opinion of the civilian world, not necessarily the Navy. I don’t have near enough experience with them to make that kind of judgement.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I just assume if someone has triple sevens or higher, decent gpa and OAR, then they had a medical or drug issue that couldn’t get taken care of. I could be wrong but I feel like that would make the most sense.

The professional board doesn't see anything medical.

 

[Ghost SWO]

He told me the 850 worder would not fit and to cut it to 500. I actually ended up at 575ish. He also said I tried to sell myself almost too much, if that is ever a thing. I covered why the Navy should pick me, but didn’t write enough about why I picked the Navy.

I didn't get into the details in the first week leading up to the application cut-off because I thought what I had was pretty good and I'm competitive like that. I'll discuss it now in case this ends up working for me and there are others who are looking for an answer to, "what do I do with the motivational statement?"

I actually saw the first piece of advice that started me down my specific track on the motivational statement from the AirWarriors forum. The individual said they answered two primary questions and was then picked up for a slot after the statement change on the second board.

They focused on these two things;
1.) What makes you a good Sailor,
2.) What makes you a good officer.
In that order.

They described the statement space limit being very small, 250 words or so and they answered it in about 3 paragraphs. (contrast to the 700+ word limit now)

I later ran across a USAF pilot forum where an officer was addressing their own motivational statement and gave the advice to fill the space and to sell yourself. I then ran across an Army Warrant Officer video on Youtube who gave the same advice (Soldier first, officer second), use the space provided, and sell yourself with every sentence.

I took these things and wove them into a personal story. My motivational statement was a personal history that primarily focused on my military service because that time in my life completely addressed the areas that would make me a strong Sailor, officer, and candidate for a Navy career. One could use any time in your life to accomplish the same thing, quantifying your ability to serve as a Sailor in the Navy, Quantifying your ability to serve in an officer capacity with leadership examples, and quantifying your ability to have a long successful career.

I did that by providing a history of specific instances in my life where I had proven my capability to excel in a military environment. By providing leadership examples with data and impactful statistics, and providing personal perspective on why I look forward to a Navy career. It wound up being fairly long and it was a chore to reduce the word count to the new limit.

This is the last shot for me before I age out so I went with a heavy hitting statement where every sentence has an impact and purpose. It honestly would be hard to imagine anyone reading it and thinking "Nah, we don't need this guy", lol. I think that's the whole point, I don't need to motivate myself, I need to motivate the readers into selecting me.

 

[NobleJ]

Here is a great article on cause of student attrition in the US Naval Aviation Training.

It'd be interesting to know if they folks that DOR'd did so in Preflight Indocrenation-- beach runs, blind folded underwater o-course, and long flight suit swims.

 

[Coriolanus]

Any current or previous Sailors have advice on swimming? I can do all of the requirements my recruiter talked about (Staying afloat, swimming a certain distance, ect.) but I never learned to "properly" swim. I can do the freestyle and breast strokes decently but feel there's room for improvement.

 

[Ghost SWO]

It'd be interesting to know if they folks that DOR'd did so in Preflight Indocrenation-- beach runs, blind folded underwater o-course, and long flight suit swims.

Based on the attrition article, I don't think so. It seems more related to a loss of interest through a long pipeline. (Table 5 - Difficulties encountered during training)

I would almost put those physical related activities under Table 4 for, "Not physically qualified", "Physical training failure", or "Practical work failure", which are all pretty low.

I think most people just lose interest and quit. I think during the API portion morale would be high and you'd have very few drop-outs. Personal motivation decreases with time.

 

[justheretocreep]

Based on the attrition article, I don't think so. It seems more related to a loss of interest through a long pipeline. (Table 5 - Difficulties encountered during training)
View attachment 27470View attachment 27471
I would almost put those physical related activities under Table 4 for, "Not physically qualified", "Physical training failure", or "Practical work failure", which are all pretty low.

I think most people just lose interest and quit. I think during the API portion morale would be high and you'd have very few drop-outs. Personal motivation decreases with time.

Can confirm, almost nobody spells Doritos while in IFS or API. Most of the drops in that phase are medically related or educational due to test failures and pink slips. From my experience most DOR's are in Primary. It's that perfect spot where you have been in the program long enough for the stress to take over but not long enough to see light at the end of tunnel. I haven't heard of too many dropping in Advanced as you make it that far you want to finish it. Call it a second wind if you will, but most drops in Advanced are pink sheet related. Most people who I have talked to that DOR'd just realized it wasn't what they were expecting and wanted to make a change into another designator. A lot try and go into the IW community, some go AMDO, and a handful go SWO.

 

[jonesy27]

Any current or previous Sailors have advice on swimming? I can do all of the requirements my recruiter talked about (Staying afloat, swimming a certain distance, ect.) but I never learned to "properly" swim. I can do the freestyle and breast strokes decently but feel there's room for improvement.

I'm a current instructor at NASC.

The swimming at OCS right now is pretty elementary. Essentially you just need to prove that you can swim the length of the pool without stopping. When you get to Pensacola you'll go through Intermediate Water Survival and thats where you'll need to be able to do the various "survival" strokes. Practice, practice, practice is the best advice I can give. The breaststroke in particular is the most important to get down with a big emphasis on the kick. Thats what we teach in Pensacola to keep at the surface while wearing flight gear and boots. Don't stress it to much. Its the ones that don't worry and come in overconfident that struggle the most.

 

[__Dvdh__]

Howdy Y'all. I've been watching these chats since january and it looks like I've been approved with a large number of others. I'm not on any board because I have to go to MEPS again, but I'd love to shoot the sh1t with you.

Opting for SNA/NFO
Major: Mechanical Engineering
GPA: 2.5 (Yes I know...)
ASTB: 54 6/8/7
Prior Service: N
LORS: Ret Cmdr p-3 pilot, and 3 Senior Enlisted men from various branches.
Age: 27