kito
New Member
There's an ideal to live by for anyone looking to become an officer. I'm going to have to make that my new sig.
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12 Dead, 31 Wounded @ FT HOOD
- Thread starter RadicalDude
- Start date
There's an ideal to live by for anyone looking to become an officer. I'm going to have to make that my new sig.
@A4s et al: What are these generals supposed to do in your opinion? Go on camera and rail against Islam? Yeah, great strategy. Even GWB wouldn't have supported something like that.
I don't get what all the fuss is about anyway. Seems like some of you are recommending that we start treating Muslims in this country the way we treated the Japanese during WWII. Is that really what this country needs? This is an emotional response to current events, not a well thought out strategy to address the problem. Listen, I get that there are Muslim terrorists (and criminals), and I get that some people want to say fuck it and chalk them all up as enemies of the state, but it's not a very realistic or just way to look at the problem. There's not an easy solution, but doing it your way would paint a whole host of completely innocent people as criminals. That's not the way our system works, and I can't imagine that deep down, people really want to make that kind of social/cultural sacrifice on the off hand chance that we nab a couple domestic terrorists. That kind of thinking is truly un-American.
Brett
I don't get what all the fuss is about anyway. Seems like some of you are recommending that we start treating Muslims in this country the way we treated the Japanese during WWII. Is that really what this country needs? This is an emotional response to current events, not a well thought out strategy to address the problem. Listen, I get that there are Muslim terrorists (and criminals), and I get that some people want to say fuck it and chalk them all up as enemies of the state, but it's not a very realistic or just way to look at the problem. There's not an easy solution, but doing it your way would paint a whole host of completely innocent people as criminals. That's not the way our system works, and I can't imagine that deep down, people really want to make that kind of social/cultural sacrifice on the off hand chance that we nab a couple domestic terrorists. That kind of thinking is truly un-American.
Brett
Good comment by RIchard Fernandez (Belmont Club Blog) in his column on this, in re to much of the "analysis;" link is to his column, the excerpt is from one of his comments in the comment section:
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/05/fort-hood/#more-6627
What I’m really scared of, especially after watching the self-flagellating clips on TV talk shows, is that the elite are finally on the road to giving the Openly Ridiculous Order. Hasan created a terrible dilemma for the politically correct. If they recognize his existence their whole house collapses; and rather than bend slightly and allow for the fact that America might just be facing an enemy, they’ve doubled down. It’s incredible, but a lot of them are upping the ante on a patently ludicrous proposition. ‘Hasan was just too compassionate. Hasan was just another victim of George Bush’s failed policy’.
And the net result of this, if the PC clowns can get away with their campaign of inversion they will practically ensure two things happen simultaneously. A: they will make any rational inquiry into traitors in the military impossible and B: they will put all Muslims, however patriotic, however brave under a cloud of suspicion from which they can never emerge. It will be like affirmative action in its worst sense all over again. Rather than promote integration it will promote fractionalization. If America doesn’t have a Muslim problem now it soon will — courtesy of political correctness.
But there’s worse.
Eventually you will have situations in which people who are actually not trusted may be put in formal positions of authority simply because they can’t be questioned. This when the Openly Ridiculous Order situation comes in. When an elite starts to issue lunatic directives a certain something snaps. They lose legitimacy. People obey, but they do not comply. In other words, they start to obey only when the bosses are around. The moment the super leaves the room, they all start to laugh at him.
The really perverse thing about political correctness isn’t that they give you slops to eat; it’s that they give you slops to eat and expect you to smile and ask for seconds. The entire exercise is pointless except as an exercise and confirmation of power over you.
Societies don’t last long when their leaders become ridiculous. It’s a dangerous moment. In many ways the damage that Hasan created in Fort Hood, bad though it was, will be as nothing to the cannons he’s untied that are now rolling unsecured around the deck.
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/11/05/fort-hood/#more-6627
What I’m really scared of, especially after watching the self-flagellating clips on TV talk shows, is that the elite are finally on the road to giving the Openly Ridiculous Order. Hasan created a terrible dilemma for the politically correct. If they recognize his existence their whole house collapses; and rather than bend slightly and allow for the fact that America might just be facing an enemy, they’ve doubled down. It’s incredible, but a lot of them are upping the ante on a patently ludicrous proposition. ‘Hasan was just too compassionate. Hasan was just another victim of George Bush’s failed policy’.
And the net result of this, if the PC clowns can get away with their campaign of inversion they will practically ensure two things happen simultaneously. A: they will make any rational inquiry into traitors in the military impossible and B: they will put all Muslims, however patriotic, however brave under a cloud of suspicion from which they can never emerge. It will be like affirmative action in its worst sense all over again. Rather than promote integration it will promote fractionalization. If America doesn’t have a Muslim problem now it soon will — courtesy of political correctness.
But there’s worse.
Eventually you will have situations in which people who are actually not trusted may be put in formal positions of authority simply because they can’t be questioned. This when the Openly Ridiculous Order situation comes in. When an elite starts to issue lunatic directives a certain something snaps. They lose legitimacy. People obey, but they do not comply. In other words, they start to obey only when the bosses are around. The moment the super leaves the room, they all start to laugh at him.
The really perverse thing about political correctness isn’t that they give you slops to eat; it’s that they give you slops to eat and expect you to smile and ask for seconds. The entire exercise is pointless except as an exercise and confirmation of power over you.
Societies don’t last long when their leaders become ridiculous. It’s a dangerous moment. In many ways the damage that Hasan created in Fort Hood, bad though it was, will be as nothing to the cannons he’s untied that are now rolling unsecured around the deck.
And his little brother is a P-3 dude and all around awesome American. Though if you're ever crossing the boarder with him you're going to get searched - no joke, I've never been searched coming across the boarder except the time he was with my wife and I coming back into the US from Canada.
FlyingOnFumes
Nobel WAR Prize Aspirant
Yeah... that would have been the perfect time for you to have said, "He's holding us hostage!"
I keed. I keed.
At some point enough is enough when it comes to PCness and I suspect exhelodrvr is correct and it's going to be sooner than later for the U.S..
Jeez- Even France caught on and has begun efforts to prohibit the wearing of the HJab as it's been deemed non-conforming to French beliefs and principles. Come, immigrate, learn the language and assimilate to the culture YOU chose, or leave. PCness only goes so far- then you have to put your foot down and regain control of your principles. But then again 9-11 has already seemed to kind of fade away with some Americans. I mean heck- we can't have detainees sit in that "International Embarrassment" called Gitmo- they need to come here to US prisons so we can appear to clean up our image.
IMO over half of the elected officials in the U.S. have lost lost touch with reality. I hope we do better for our people from this point moving forward.
I think it's more than half by a long shot, IMHO... :icon_rage
What is important to keep in mind with respect the Secretary and the Army COS talking about this tragedy is that what they say can directly impact future legal proceedings. How? Among other things, I am pretty certain the Secretary orders the execution of soldiers/signs the death warrant. That is on top of all the other authority they have being at the top of the Army food chain.
So would you rather them be reticent with their public comments or foul up future criminal proceedings against the shooter, possibly delaying his execution? I think I would err on the side of being cautious, like they have, and let law enforcement and our judicial system do the rest.
If you think I am on the far left you might want to recage you gyros. While many of my colleagues are to the right of me, some are to the left and then there are plenty that think a lot like me. It takes all types, believe it or not.
And since when the hell did the politics of someone covering your ass matter anyways? Shouldn't there be other things you are worried about when the shit hits the fan than who they voted for, like can they shoot or fly straight?
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Ahh, my bad. Even without that authority what they say could still affect future judicial proceedings with their place in the COC.
Same goes for everyone.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
No worries. The only reason I knew that to be the case was we had a friend of ours who was a JAG (now IW Officer) talking about how the grenade tosser's death sentence was before the president.
Agreed.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
AFAIK, this man's motive is unknown, and there's an ongoing investigation.
Could it possibly be that he was just a crazy mothafvcka who happened to be Muslim, rather than a Muslim radical executing a maniacal terrorist plot against the U.S.?
Let the investigation flesh out all the details before you grab your pitchforks to rally against Muslims, liberals, and PC pundits.
As far as the top brass goes, if they say nothing the media will crucify the Army for a "cover up." That's just the kind of publicity that a service which has had problems meeting recruiting goals over the past decade needs. If they lambast the killer, they give defense attorneys the ability to claim that he can't receive a fair trial. If they give PC statements, they get derided for not having a pair.
It's a no-win situation. That's why they make the big bucks.
Could it possibly be that he was just a crazy mothafvcka who happened to be Muslim, rather than a Muslim radical executing a maniacal terrorist plot against the U.S.?
Let the investigation flesh out all the details before you grab your pitchforks to rally against Muslims, liberals, and PC pundits.
As far as the top brass goes, if they say nothing the media will crucify the Army for a "cover up." That's just the kind of publicity that a service which has had problems meeting recruiting goals over the past decade needs. If they lambast the killer, they give defense attorneys the ability to claim that he can't receive a fair trial. If they give PC statements, they get derided for not having a pair.
It's a no-win situation. That's why they make the big bucks.