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16 Years Service (10 Years Enlisted) Can I retire without DH tours?

GuamLife1

Well-Known Member
Greetings,

-Current LT (WTI)
-16 Years Service (10 enlisted)
-Signed DHRB Bonus haven't used a penny of it
-Can I pay it back and not go to DH?
-Can I wait out the next four years at my current command and retire?
-Any help at all. I am slated to head out to DH school in FY2025
-The kids are old now, and I don't think DH is for me or my family
-Thank you all for the help over the years!

-Guam Life1
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Greetings,

-Current LT (WTI)
-16 Years Service (10 enlisted)
-Signed DHRB Bonus haven't used a penny of it
-Can I pay it back and not go to DH?
-Can I wait out the next four years at my current command and retire?
-Any help at all. I am slated to head out to DH school in FY2025
-The kids are old now, and I don't think DH is for me or my family
-Thank you all for the help over the years!

-Guam Life1

These are really good questions to ask your detailer at PERS-41. Being that you agreed to DHRB, it might be painfully difficult to get out of sea duty as a DH.
 

GuamLife1

Well-Known Member
Agree with the contact with the detailer.

Just wanted to know if there was some gouge outside the lifelines before I ask if this is even possible.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Agree with the contact with the detailer.

Just wanted to know if there was some gouge outside the lifelines before I ask if this is even possible.
You can’t just stay at your present command. That’s a non-starter. Are you on sea duty now? If so, there may be some decent shore duty somewhere, but if PERS has you for another 4 years, you aren’t in a strong bargaining position. Depending on your rapport with your current front office, I’d invite them into the conversation so they can advocate on your behalf.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
Agree with the above, but I would also ask why you think DH life isn’t for you and the family?
 

haubby

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
You posed this question awhile ago. Highly doubtful they'll let you out once you took the bonus. Are you in a billet that required SWOCP?
 

haubby

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
My current job has me riding ships most of the time and I get to see a variety of personalities/leadership styles. One ship in particular is having a rough time getting thru the basic phase. The CHENG is sour about being CHENG and it's infected the entire department. My last conversation with the CO was that there should be a change, starting with the CHENG. My recommendation was to get the CHENG off the ship for a month. If the department rebounds without this individual onboard, then the CO knows what to do. Either way I don't see this person surviving and will/should be DFC'd.

All this to say since you took the bonus and outside of some life changing event, prepare yourself and your family for these tours. They suck and require an enormous amount of effort. The people that will work for you deserve your very best. Don't be the DH who gets fired because their entire tour was spent whining about how crappy the job is or that they're in a billet they didn't want.
 

GuamLife1

Well-Known Member
You can’t just stay at your present command. That’s a non-starter. Are you on sea duty now? If so, there may be some decent shore duty somewhere, but if PERS has you for another 4 years, you aren’t in a strong bargaining position. Depending on your rapport with your current front office, I’d invite them into the conversation so they can advocate on your behalf.
-I’m on shore duty right now
-No DHRB required billet
-prd isn’t for another two years
-that would put me at 18 years.
-curious if they would just extend me out at my present command?

I will of course be looping in everyone of a decision point is required. Wanted some out of the lifelines gouge before I start my RFIs
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Another good point here, even in the event PERS-41 lets you decline DHRB and pay back any sort of unearned bonus, expect to be "needs of the Navy" in terms of your remaining set of orders. This includes unaccompanied orders to Bahrain, Diego Garcia, etc. until you are retirement eligible.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
-I’m on shore duty right now
-No DHRB required billet
-prd isn’t for another two years
-that would put me at 18 years.
-curious if they would just extend me out at my present command?

I will of course be looping in everyone of a decision point is required. Wanted some out of the lifelines gouge before I start my RFIs
The only saving grace you may have is that you may be able to take advantage of the sanctuary regulations to stay in the Navy but refuse DH orders. When do you rotate to DH School? That's a 6-12 month pipeline depending on what job you're going to do and how backed up SWOS is. That may put you around the 19 year mark when you report to your ship. It's entirely possible that instead trying to avoid your DH tour, you go through with it and instead put your retirement papers in shortly after arriving. That will be a poison pill and expect everyone to hate you for it, but if you don't care it's another possible COA.

Also, you could request to resign your commission and return to enlisted life. I've seen this for Mustangs that FOS'ed twice and were allowed to spend their last couple of years as enlisted so they could still retire. I'm not sure how this works though, so you'd have to talk to someone at PERS, probably in the POCR office (IIRC that's PERS-9#).

Another good point here, even in the event PERS-41 lets you decline DHRB and pay back any sort of unearned bonus, expect to be "needs of the Navy" in terms of your remaining set of orders. This includes unaccompanied orders to Bahrain, Diego Garcia, etc. until you are retirement eligible.
It's very possible that being "Needs of the Navy" results in sea duty anyway at either a Type 3 sea duty like NECC or a Super DIVO tour. I've seen weird things happen with people like that in the SWO community. Very rarely is it fun.

My current job has me riding ships most of the time and I get to see a variety of personalities/leadership styles. One ship in particular is having a rough time getting thru the basic phase. The CHENG is sour about being CHENG and it's infected the entire department. My last conversation with the CO was that there should be a change, starting with the CHENG. My recommendation was to get the CHENG off the ship for a month. If the department rebounds without this individual onboard, then the CO knows what to do. Either way I don't see this person surviving and will/should be DFC'd.

All this to say since you took the bonus and outside of some life changing event, prepare yourself and your family for these tours. They suck and require an enormous amount of effort. The people that will work for you deserve your very best. Don't be the DH who gets fired because their entire tour was spent whining about how crappy the job is or that they're in a billet they didn't want.
Are they still doing the DH shuffle? When I left the SWO community a few years ago, PERS messed up assignments and people ended up getting randomly assigned to DH jobs so you had officers who went through the WEPS/CSO pipeline who then got orders to be a CHENG, officers who thought they were going CRUDES only to end up with orders to a Gator or vice versa, and people who thought they were going to Mayport ended up with orders to Japan. Very often this switch up happened in the latter half of DH School and left many DHs very bitter. I'm not sure if that's still happening but it's very possible.
 

haubby

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
That still happens from what I'm seeing in the Fleet. What's interesting is the drought of people who want to be CHENG. There just isn't enough of them wanting it so others are being told, hey you're it. I've worked with IAMD WTI's who had all intentions of being WEP/CSO and then are billeted as CHENG. Tack on the single long tour for CHENG and people are just getting burnt out. On the most recent ship I certified, the CHENG had never been an engineer prior to this tour, but his department blasted thru the basic phase and certified early. He had a good outlook and good people around him. Experiences vary.

I've heard rumors that some YG's haven't gotten enough DH signers and that PERS is considering making OPS and CSO both single long tours with WEPS becoming a 2nd tour divo job. My contacts at PERS won't confirm and when I ask questions, I continue to get its still a great time to be a SWO.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I know an O4 SWO who went FTS (USNR) and is still on track for an active duty retirement/pension. He ended up being a NRC (f.k.a. NOSC) CO or XO. Not sure if that is an option for you at this stage. MILPERSMAN 1001-020 from 2019 says PERS-352 is the approval authority for AC to FTS conversions.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
I know an O4 SWO who went FTS (USNR) and is still on track for an active duty retirement/pension. He ended up being a NRC (f.k.a. NOSC) CO or XO. Not sure if that is an option for you at this stage. MILPERSMAN 1001-020 from 2019 says PERS-352 is the approval authority for AC to FTS conversions.

As a TAR SWO/1117, they would still be expected to do SWO DH afloat tours.
The workaround I've seen has been folks either get out, or go on shore duty past the 8 YCS mark, miss the SWO DH/SWOS pipeline requirement and then go 1117 and through the NRC or reserve manpower track.
 

GuamLife1

Well-Known Member
The only saving grace you may have is that you may be able to take advantage of the sanctuary regulations to stay in the Navy but refuse DH orders. When do you rotate to DH School? That's a 6-12 month pipeline depending on what job you're going to do and how backed up SWOS is. That may put you around the 19 year mark when you report to your ship. It's entirely possible that instead trying to avoid your DH tour, you go through with it and instead put your retirement papers in shortly after arriving. That will be a poison pill and expect everyone to hate you for it, but if you don't care it's another possible COA.

Also, you could request to resign your commission and return to enlisted life. I've seen this for Mustangs that FOS'ed twice and were allowed to spend their last couple of years as enlisted so they could still retire. I'm not sure how this works though, so you'd have to talk to someone at PERS, probably in the POCR office (IIRC that's PERS-9#).


It's very possible that being "Needs of the Navy" results in sea duty anyway at either a Type 3 sea duty like NECC or a Super DIVO tour. I've seen weird things happen with people like that in the SWO community. Very rarely is it fun.


Are they still doing the DH shuffle? When I left the SWO community a few years ago, PERS messed up assignments and people ended up getting randomly assigned to DH jobs so you had officers who went through the WEPS/CSO pipeline who then got orders to be a CHENG, officers who thought they were going CRUDES only to end up with orders to a Gator or vice versa, and people who thought they were going to Mayport ended up with orders to Japan. Very often this switch up happened in the latter half of DH School and left many DHs very bitter. I'm not sure if that's still happening but it's very possible.

You are correct on the timing. I would be nearly at the 19 year mark upon arriving for first DH tour.

The intention is to do the DHs tour and not mess around with any of this. I’m not slated for a ship or billet or anything right now aka not effecting downstream fills. Just curious on what every options outcomes are before I 1K commit to something.
 
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