16 Years Service (10 Years Enlisted) Can I retire without DH tours?

[AllAmerican75]

That still happens from what I'm seeing in the Fleet. What's interesting is the drought of people who want to be CHENG. There just isn't enough of them wanting it so others are being told, hey you're it. I've worked with IAMD WTI's who had all intentions of being WEP/CSO and then are billeted as CHENG. Tack on the single long tour for CHENG and people are just getting burnt out. On the most recent ship I certified, the CHENG had never been an engineer prior to this tour, but his department blasted thru the basic phase and certified early. He had a good outlook and good people around him. Experiences vary.

I've heard rumors that some YG's haven't gotten enough DH signers and that PERS is considering making OPS and CSO both single long tours with WEPS becoming a 2nd tour divo job. My contacts at PERS won't confirm and when I ask questions, I continue to get its still a great time to be a SWO.

Damn. I don't blame people not wanting to be CHENGs. Being on the RMC/Shipyard side of the house, I truly don't know how much longer we can continue operating like we are. The material condition of the ships themselves and the constant "Do more with less" culture has made being a CHENG almost impossible. It's like you're set up for failure before you even get there. Hopefully you guys at EAG/ATG/INSURV/DESRON/PHIBRON are taking that into account during your evaluations.

Side note: That whole "It's still a great time to be a SWO" bullshit needs to die. It pisses me off to no end that we lie through our teeth to officers about the state of the community instead of trying to truly fix our culture, processes, and approach to things. Even simple things like changing the way we stand watch and our approach to managing people's circadian rhythms would go a long way to preventing burnout but that seems almost impossible. Hell, I once had the CO of SWOS tell us it was a "great time" to be a SWO while he was bragging about all of the JOs who were getting out after their DIVO tours and "doing great things and representing the SWO community in the civilian world." It's nonsense.

I know an O4 SWO who went FTS (USNR) and is still on track for an active duty retirement/pension. He ended up being a NRC (f.k.a. NOSC) CO or XO. Not sure if that is an option for you at this stage. MILPERSMAN 1001-020 from 2019 says PERS-352 is the approval authority for AC to FTS conversions.

Since he signed the DH bonus, he has little wiggle room. If he was still on the fence about the bonus, he would have many more options including lateral transfer into another community. That's what I did when I decided the SWO life wasn't for me.

 

[Brett327]

-I’m on shore duty right now
-No DHRB required billet
-prd isn’t for another two years
-that would put me at 18 years.
-curious if they would just extend me out at my present command?

I will of course be looping in everyone of a decision point is required. Wanted some out of the lifelines gouge before I start my RFIs

While I can’t speak directly to the PERS-41 business rules, if you’re on shore duty now with 2 years left post PRD, you’re going to go back to sea, and if you’ve backed out of the DH bonus process, you aren’t exactly going to ingratiate yourself with the people writing those sea duty orders. Again, your call, but from what you’ve told us here, you will be in an extremely poor bargaining position when it comes to those sea duty orders. With that in mind, I’d strongly consider sticking with the DH path and being a little more in control of your destiny… plus you get to keep the cash.

 

[Mos]

My first tour, I remember a DH, with a forlorn look in his eyes says to us, "don't take their blood money, fellas,... just don't take it." Can't remember why but most of our DHs seemed kind of miserable at that time.

 

[GuamLife1]

While I can’t speak directly to the PERS-41 business rules, if you’re on shore duty now with two years left post PRD, you’re going to go back to sea, and if you’ve backed out of the DH bonus process, you aren’t exactly going to ingratiate yourself with the people writing those sea duty orders. Again, your call, but from what you’ve told us here, you will be in an extremely poor bargaining position when it comes to those sea duty orders. With that in mind, I’d strongly consider sticking with the DH path and being a little more in control of your destiny… plus you get to keep the cash.

Thank you for the advice, I really do appreciate it. This site has helped so many people myself included.

My primary intention is to follow through with it.

I have good paperwork, a WTI, and completing my masters. Goal right now is to complete the DH tours and retire upon the completion of the 2nd DH tour.

The secondary is to stick it out post DH and retire as an 04 with about 24-25 years of service.

The third is to look at what my options are regarding not going to DH and taking a shitty 1 year billet to Diego Garcia and then retiring lol

 

[Brett327]

Thank you for the advice, I really do appreciate it. This site has helped so many people myself included.

My primary intention is to follow through with it.

I have good paperwork, a WTI, and completing my masters. Goal right now is to complete the DH tours and retire upon the completion of the 2nd DH tour.

The secondary is to stick it out post DH and retire as an 04 with about 24-25 years of service.

The third is to look at what my options are regarding not going to DH and taking a shitty 1 year billet to Diego Garcia and then retiring lol

FWIW, I had 8 years enlisted time, and just passed my 34 year mark on active duty as an O6. I know your community is different than aviation, but it’s all what you make of it. I had a blast during my DH tour… mostly because I worked with awesome people and had mostly good leadership.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Thank you for the advice, I really do appreciate it. This site has helped so many people myself included.

My primary intention is to follow through with it.

I have good paperwork, a WTI, and completing my masters. Goal right now is to complete the DH tours and retire upon the completion of the 2nd DH tour.

The secondary is to stick it out post DH and retire as an 04 with about 24-25 years of service.

The third is to look at what my options are regarding not going to DH and taking a shitty 1 year billet to Diego Garcia and then retiring lol

I will say, if you choose to do your two DH afloat tours that might help leverage you get short duty orders that might help with your transition, such as desired location and whatnot.

I don’t recommend getting out / retiring on sea duty.

 

[GuamLife1]

I will say, if you choose to do your two DH afloat tours that might help leverage you get short duty orders that might help with your transition, such as desired location and whatnot.

I don’t recommend getting out / retiring on sea duty.

True, about 99.9% of folks have said the same. Do the post DH shore tour to set yourself up for the next chapter including all of your medical/interviews etc..

The concern with that and its becoming very apparent now is due to the deficit of 04s on the fleet, a lot of folks are now being sent back to “seas duty” type billets to try and plug holes.

I've always taken it one tour at a time so ill have to judge the trend line when that option becomes available.

The only reason I have been asking the “what if” question of not doing the DH tours and just retiring as an LT is because I believe that as soon as you pope that genie of a question out of the bottle your going to be labeled, and I don't want that “stink” on me lol so I wanted outside opinion of “what if?”

At the end of the day you have to advocate for yourself and your family. The organization is going to do the same again for itself. Totally understand the difficult balance that Pers has to do with whats good for member/ the organization. The whole balance to mission to balance to the force approach.

 

[AllAmerican75]

True, about 99.9% of folks have said the same. Do the post DH shore tour to set yourself up for the next chapter including all of your medical/interviews etc..

The concern with that and its becoming very apparent now is due to the deficit of 04s on the fleet, a lot of folks are now being sent back to “seas duty” type billets to try and plug holes.

I've always taken it one tour at a time so ill have to judge the trend line when that option becomes available.

The only reason I have been asking the “what if” question of not doing the DH tours and just retiring as an LT is because I believe that as soon as you pope that genie of a question out of the bottle your going to be labeled, and I don't want that “stink” on me lol so I wanted outside opinion of “what if?”

At the end of the day you have to advocate for yourself and your family. The organization is going to do the same again for itself. Totally understand the difficult balance that Pers has to do with whats good for member/ the organization. The whole balance to mission to balance to the force approach.

Honestly, dude, I think most people will get it. My recommendation is to sit down with your CO and XO when you get to your ship and have a discussion about career options. They will definitely try to retain you as a SWO but tell them you're trying to figure out what your Post-DH career looks like because you're so close to retirement and trying to figure it all out. If you have a good CO/XO, they should be willing to help you with that kind of mentorship. Maybe mention you'd like to do something different on your post-DH tour and see what the options are other than just going to a squadron or CSG (These seem to be the most common post-DH tours). They will understand that you're a Mustang and in a different place in your life than a "normal" Dept Head.

I will say, if you choose to do your two DH afloat tours that might help leverage you get short duty orders that might help with your transition, such as desired location and whatnot.

I don’t recommend getting out / retiring on sea duty.

I second this. Those 2-6 years on shore duty are the optimal time to figure the rest of your life out and start preparing for it.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

True, about 99.9% of folks have said the same. Do the post DH shore tour to set yourself up for the next chapter including all of your medical/interviews etc..

The concern with that and its becoming very apparent now is due to the deficit of 04s on the fleet, a lot of folks are now being sent back to “seas duty” type billets to try and plug holes.

I've always taken it one tour at a time so ill have to judge the trend line when that option becomes available.

The only reason I have been asking the “what if” question of not doing the DH tours and just retiring as an LT is because I believe that as soon as you pope that genie of a question out of the bottle your going to be labeled, and I don't want that “stink” on me lol so I wanted outside opinion of “what if?”

At the end of the day you have to advocate for yourself and your family. The organization is going to do the same again for itself. Totally understand the difficult balance that Pers has to do with whats good for member/ the organization. The whole balance to mission to balance to the force approach.

At that point (on the tail end of your second DH tour) you will have leverage and negotiating power with PERS-41. If they are pushing you for a post DH sea tour, you have every right to just decline and retire. Otherwise, they may be willing and supportive of finding shore duty assignments based on where you want to be.

Unless you choose to take the LCDR retention bonus, you are obligation-free after your two DH tours.

 

[haubby]

At that point (on the tail end of your second DH tour) you will have leverage and negotiating power with PERS-41. If they are pushing you for a post DH sea tour, you have every right to just decline and retire. Otherwise, they may be willing and supportive of finding shore duty assignments based on where you want to be.

Unless you choose to take the LCDR retention bonus, you are obligation-free after your two DH tours.

When negotiating orders for PD1 and your absolutely sure you're retiring, tell the detailer so. You'll still slate with others who have the same PRD, but it will be less of a hassle to keep you on the right path. If there's a job that's super interesting and in a unique part of America, but a career killer, the detailer knowing your intentions will be more keen to write the orders. I did this to an extent knowing I wanted to go my current command. I have a friend who is doing his PD1 in Alaska at a joint command and is retiring from there. But taking those orders certainly limits his chances for command at sea.

I did not take the LCDR retention bonus. It's designed to get you back on a ship in any capacity. While I am not 100% certain, I dont know of a way to take the bonus and then retire from either PD1 or PD2. If you fail to screen 1st look for CDR CMD and the next year screen XO AFLOAT or XO-SM or XO*, the detailers are calling you the day the results are released telling you to email them your slate preferences. You're then transfering the next month to start the pipeline. That's where the retention bonus bites back.

Unless you're determined to retire at sea, be careful/mindful telling your boss those intentions. Chances are high it'll be reflected in your rankings come FITREP time. While I didn't experience it on my DDG, it became very real on my CG. Once I told my Captain I was not pursuing command, that was pretty much the end of it. No hard feelings on either part, but that's the way it was.

In my current capacity, I was very open with my boss on my intentions to retire. Both my FITREPS spell that out and I was okay with being the P, 3.0 for RSCA management and letting others take the EP. I still sleep very well at night.

 

[GuamLife1]

When negotiating orders for PD1 and your absolutely sure you're retiring, tell the detailer so. You'll still slate with others who have the same PRD, but it will be less of a hassle to keep you on the right path. If there's a job that's super interesting and in a unique part of America, but a career killer, the detailer knowing your intentions will be more keen to write the orders. I did this to an extent knowing I wanted to go my current command. I have a friend who is doing his PD1 in Alaska at a joint command and is retiring from there. But taking those orders certainly limits his chances for command at sea.

I did not take the LCDR retention bonus. It's designed to get you back on a ship in any capacity. While I am not 100% certain, I dont know of a way to take the bonus and then retire from either PD1 or PD2. If you fail to screen 1st look for CDR CMD and the next year screen XO AFLOAT or XO-SM or XO*, the detailers are calling you the day the results are released telling you to email them your slate preferences. You're then transfering the next month to start the pipeline. That's where the retention bonus bites back.

Unless you're determined to retire at sea, be careful/mindful telling your boss those intentions. Chances are high it'll be reflected in your rankings come FITREP time. While I didn't experience it on my DDG, it became very real on my CG. Once I told my Captain I was not pursuing command, that was pretty much the end of it. No hard feelings on either part, but that's the way it was.

In my current capacity, I was very open with my boss on my intentions to retire. Both my FITREPS spell that out and I was okay with being the P, 3.0 for RSCA management and letting others take the EP. I still sleep very well at night.

Thank you for well formulated response. Probably the best “guide” I have received so far. You hit all my “hesitation/concerning” bullet points of why I am so hesitant to even pop the question. Also that's excellent insight into the LCDR bonus, I was always curious about the “why” on that retention program as well. I knew it was to keep you on the active duty “roster” but didn't know it was used for further milestone progression in that fashion.

Do you think its even worth asking about not doing the DH tours at all? Taking the same line of thought regarding hesitation on “advertising” your intentions.

03E retirement isn't terrible so that's why I am looking into the idea all together. Again appreciate the help!

 

[GuamLife1]

Thank you for well formulated response. Probably the best “guide” I have received so far. You hit all my “hesitation/concerning” bullet points of why I am so hesitant to even pop the question. Also that's excellent insight into the LCDR bonus, I was always curious about the “why” on that retention program as well. I knew it was to keep you on the active duty “roster” but didn't know it was used for further milestone progression in that fashion.

Do you think its even worth asking about not doing the DH tours at all? Taking the same line of thought regarding hesitation on “advertising” your intentions.

03E retirement isn't terrible so that's why I am looking into the idea all together. Again appreciate the help!

Basically when I am one day having it really rough as a DH (which you will at some point) I want to know 1K% that I exhausted all options and concluded that this was the best path for me. I want to know that I am here because its the best way forward and get the job done without any mental reservations.

 

[haubby]

Thank you for well formulated response. Probably the best “guide” I have received so far. You hit all my “hesitation/concerning” bullet points of why I am so hesitant to even pop the question. Also that's excellent insight into the LCDR bonus, I was always curious about the “why” on that retention program as well. I knew it was to keep you on the active duty “roster” but didn't know it was used for further milestone progression in that fashion.

Do you think its even worth asking about not doing the DH tours at all? Taking the same line of thought regarding hesitation on “advertising” your intentions.

03E retirement isn't terrible so that's why I am looking into the idea all together. Again appreciate the help!

You had some bargaining power prior to taking the bonus. I think trying to get out of it now would equate to you just pissing into the wind. In the end all you did was soil yourself and the DH job still awaits you.

There is something really freeing about being a DH over 20 YCS. If your competent and confident in what you're doing, it's okay to be the person in the room asking WTF are we doing? It's okay to not feel compeled to feed the ego of the person in charge. It something my peers with 12 or 13 YCS just couldn't or wouldn't even think of doing.

One of my fondest memories of my 2nd CHENG ride was giving my department a Friday off after a early morning MSFD. We had worked our asses for over two months to meet a milestone and we accomplished it that week. The POD was pretty clear for a Friday and I did not inform my Captain of my intentions (I knew the Captain would not concur with it). Once the Captain learned that damn near all of Engingeering Department was off the ship I was called to the carpet with the XO and CMC present. I was then screamed at on how I didn't control liberty (which I certainly did) and this and that and a few other gripes. After a few moments of being lambasted I asked if they were finished and that I would not be recalling my department. After a moment of silence I turned around and gave the XO a smirk and walked out. My department enjoyed a nice 3 day weekend and got back Monday and hit the ground running again.

In the end, do the job. It's going to be hard but it'll be worth it. Make the department better for you having been there. You might even make a huge difference and change the lives for a few of your Sailors.

 

[AllAmerican75]

You had some bargaining power prior to taking the bonus. I think trying to get out of it now would equate to you just pissing into the wind. In the end all you did was soil yourself and the DH job still awaits you.

There is something really freeing about being a DH over 20 YCS. If your competent and confident in what you're doing, it's okay to be the person in the room asking WTF are we doing? It's okay to not feel compeled to feed the ego of the person in charge. It something my peers with 12 or 13 YCS just couldn't or wouldn't even think of doing.

One of my fondest memories of my 2nd CHENG ride was giving my department a Friday off after a early morning MSFD. We had worked our asses for over two months to meet a milestone and we accomplished it that week. The POD was pretty clear for a Friday and I did not inform my Captain of my intentions (I knew the Captain would not concur with it). Once the Captain learned that damn near all of Engingeering Department was off the ship I was called to the carpet with the XO and CMC present. I was then screamed at on how I didn't control liberty (which I certainly did) and this and that and a few other gripes. After a few moments of being lambasted I asked if they were finished and that I would not be recalling my department. After a moment of silence I turned around and gave the XO a smirk and walked out. My department enjoyed a nice 3 day weekend and got back Monday and hit the ground running again.

In the end, do the job. It's going to be hard but it'll be worth it. Make the department better for you having been there. You might even make a huge difference and change the lives for a few of your Sailors.

That's the kind of leadership the SWO community needs. Too bad we drive those people out or they retire like you.