18 SEP 18 IWC Board

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I'm not particularly interested in getting drawn into a debate on this issue; it sounds like you're actually debating against positions I never even held. I never contended that language skills are actually used as part of the job, nor that they are weighed heavily in the application, and certainly not that they could save a mediocre application or doom a great one. So individual cases where Arabic speakers get rejected and those with no foreign language skills are accepted doesn't really change what the PA says.

The PAs have been known to be inaccurate over the years. Case in point: Flight experience for Pilot/NFO applicants. Yes the PA mentions flight experience as a "plus", in reality it has zero impact for folks getting selected. Same thing with languages, if you want to learn and/or use a foreign language in the Navy enlist as a CTI.

I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering applying for the FBI, CIA, or NCIS simply to add more relevant work experience to my next Navy Intel application. I would go back for another degree, but I can't afford to quit my attorney job and add more student loan debt on top of law school debt.

I would much rather go those routes than sitting behind a desk as a Intel officer. If you have the itch to serve, you could always apply for the Direct Commission/Reserve IWC program/s.

 

[Law_to_1830]

Not at all, there is and has been for years a disconnect as to what the PA says, and what the board actually picks, it is about setting realistic expectations for the candidates, setting those realistic expectations is what made me such a good OR, I am still in regular conversation with people I put in years ago, as well as those that didn't get in.

Why not look at those other options too? To me those see like they would be pretty cool jobs.

I think the formula she is talking about is how you add up all the GPA points earned and divide by all the GPA credits attempted.

Ah, OK. I was operating under the assumption that the PA was actually used as the guidelines for making accessions decisions. That makes sense now.

The CIA, FBI, or NCIS options would be OK - and far better than being an attorney. I really hate being an attorney, especially since all I do is handle car accident cases for entitled people who think they deserve millions because their back hurts a little. It's what happens when you graduate in the middle of a recession and the JAG isn't hiring...

Still, my real goal is the Navy. I come from a very Navy-heavy family and there is literally nothing I want more in life than to finally get to serve as a military officer - especially in our Navy. So the civilian intelligence and federal law enforcement agencies would really just be stepping stones to me in my ongoing effort to finally get into the Navy.

Thank you for the insights!

The PAs have been known to be inaccurate over the years. Case in point: Flight experience for Pilot/NFO applicants. Yes the PA mentions flight experience as a "plus", in reality it has zero impact for folks getting selected. Same thing with languages, if you want to learn and/or use a foreign language in the Navy enlist as a CTI.



I would much rather go those routes than sitting behind a desk as a Intel officer. If you have the itch to serve, you could always apply for the Direct Commission/Reserve IWC program/s.

Desk work is fine by me! I'm an introverted and cerebral person, so I couldn't care less whether I actually get any field work. I just want to serve in the Navy.

So any of the civilian intel or federal law enforecement jobs would just be stepping stones in my effort to finally get to serve.

Fair enough on the PAs. I was operating under the idea that they were the actual guidelines for accessions. Thanks!

 

[SirDataDetective]

Ah, OK. I was operating under the assumption that the PA was actually used as the guidelines for making accessions decisions. That makes sense now.

The CIA, FBI, or NCIS options would be OK - and far better than being an attorney. I really hate being an attorney, especially since all I do is handle car accident cases for entitled people who think they deserve millions because their back hurts a little. It's what happens when you graduate in the middle of a recession and the JAG isn't hiring...

Still, my real goal is the Navy. I come from a very Navy-heavy family and there is literally nothing I want more in life than to finally get to serve as a military officer - especially in our Navy. So the civilian intelligence and federal law enforcement agencies would really just be stepping stones to me in my ongoing effort to finally get into the Navy.

Thank you for the insights!




Desk work is fine by me! I'm an introverted and cerebral person, so I couldn't care less whether I actually get any field work. I just want to serve in the Navy.

So any of the civilian intel or federal law enforecement jobs would just be stepping stones in my effort to finally get to serve.

Fair enough on the PAs. I was operating under the idea that they were the actual guidelines for accessions. Thanks!

Hey, Law_to_1830 - I definitely relate to a lot of what you said here. Intel is described as boring by many, but it certainly attracts my cerebral, research-oriented side. After a number of heart crushing years in the private sector, chained to a desk and working for the benefit of shareholders in an endless cycle of regulatory CYA issues, I sense a calling to dedicate my energy to something of greater purpose. I have affinity to type of research work and Intel subject matter, and very much believe that it can bring me a sense of fulfillment and purpose that I currently lack. I've considered the three letter agencies as well, but find the calling of the Navy to be stronger. The training, exposure, travel, and potential for outsized impact is certainly stronger there, as per my conversations with a few folks in the field. Not to mention that a common career sequence seems to be military --> government agency --> banking/consulting.

I certainly hope you get in, as your background and motivations are fantastic.

Your stats are better than mine, so I'm watching your potential selection closely. I'm a little surprised that you weren't among those selected in the June Board. If 67s, 3.4+GPA, JD and relevant experience aren't being picked, then this board is on an entirely different level of competitiveness than one in which I can compete.

For transparency, I'll post my own stats now that I've almost finished my own packet. I think I upset one of the Recruiting Officers here a few weeks ago in not sharing it when they asked. (I wasn't ready to share yet )

I would post this in the "Am I Competitive" thread, but that one seems to be dead.

Age - 26
GPA - 3.5
Undergraduate - B.S Molecular Biology, B.A. Economics (Long story behind that combination)
OAR - 64
4+ years of work experience in Risk Management and Financial Crimes for big banks. Lots of data, numbers/quant, technology, open and closed-source research, legal, project management, report writing, analyzing, suffering, etc. I have lots of good leadership experience and clear demonstrated upward mobility from these.
3 LoRs from prior employers/managers, 1 appraisal from a Intel O-4 Reservist who works in my same field.
Solid volunteering, lots of sports and music-related extracurricular activities.
Hablo español.
My Motivational statement makes a pacifist want to join the military.

My OR believes that we should emphasize my Economics over the MolBio bc the former is "more quantitative", but I've read in other threads that STEM is much more highly preferred. Not sure what to do there.

I'm also a little uneasy about my lack of interview appraisals. I asked my OR for help in finding reservists in the area (thanks to whoever posted that; these forums are great!), but we had no luck. LinkedIn also hasn't been particularly fruitful. Personally, I find the importance of appraisal interviews a bit frustrating when not everyone has the same geographical exposure or network to nail these down. DC-area applicants seem to have much more luck with this.

We do the best with what we have. Hoping for the best!

 

[AULANI]

Good luck to everyone on this board. After going through OCS and meeting the other IWC people I'm not sure what they look for in a candidate. Everyone had various degrees (some STEM some not), different work experience (some very experienced some not), and different LORs, (some incredible some completely useless)... so who knows how they are picking. I can say that everyone I met seemed far more intelligent than myself.

I will say the one thing that pissed me off was we had 4 IWC types DOR from my class in the first 2 weeks. It's hard enough to get selected for this community and for those people to quit was annoying. What a waste...

 

[Law_to_1830]

Hey, Law_to_1830 - I definitely relate to a lot of what you said here. Intel is described as boring by many, but it certainly attracts my cerebral, research-oriented side. After a number of heart crushing years in the private sector, chained to a desk and working for the benefit of shareholders in an endless cycle of regulatory CYA issues, I sense a calling to dedicate my energy to something of greater purpose. I have affinity to type of research work and Intel subject matter, and very much believe that it can bring me a sense of fulfillment and purpose that I currently lack. I've considered the three letter agencies as well, but find the calling of the Navy to be stronger. The training, exposure, travel, and potential for outsized impact is certainly stronger there, as per my conversations with a few folks in the field. Not to mention that a common career sequence seems to be military --> government agency --> banking/consulting.

I certainly hope you get in, as your background and motivations are fantastic.

Your stats are better than mine, so I'm watching your potential selection closely. I'm a little surprised that you weren't among those selected in the June Board. If 67s, 3.4+GPA, JD and relevant experience aren't being picked, then this board is on an entirely different level of competitiveness than one in which I can compete.

For transparency, I'll post my own stats now that I've almost finished my own packet. I think I upset one of the Recruiting Officers here a few weeks ago in not sharing it when they asked. (I wasn't ready to share yet )

I would post this in the "Am I Competitive" thread, but that one seems to be dead.

Age - 26
GPA - 3.5
Undergraduate - B.S Molecular Biology, B.A. Economics (Long story behind that combination)
OAR - 64
4+ years of work experience in Risk Management and Financial Crimes for big banks. Lots of data, numbers/quant, technology, open and closed-source research, legal, project management, report writing, analyzing, suffering, etc. I have lots of good leadership experience and clear demonstrated upward mobility from these.
3 LoRs from prior employers/managers, 1 appraisal from a Intel O-4 Reservist who works in my same field.
Solid volunteering, lots of sports and music-related extracurricular activities.
Hablo español.
My Motivational statement makes a pacifist want to join the military.

My OR believes that we should emphasize my Economics over the MolBio bc the former is "more quantitative", but I've read in other threads that STEM is much more highly preferred. Not sure what to do there.

I'm also a little uneasy about my lack of interview appraisals. I asked my OR for help in finding reservists in the area (thanks to whoever posted that; these forums are great!), but we had no luck. LinkedIn also hasn't been particularly fruitful. Personally, I find the importance of appraisal interviews a bit frustrating when not everyone has the same geographical exposure or network to nail these down. DC-area applicants seem to have much more luck with this.

We do the best with what we have. Hoping for the best!

Thank you very much! I can absolutely understand and empathize.

Yes, the last board was insanely competitive - even more so than usual. The past few years they've usually been taking 15+ new Intel officers per board. Last board, they only hired 6 - and out of a larger-than-usual applicant pool. So the chances of getting accepted were very low indeed. My OR says that's due in part to the fact that it was the end of the fiscal year (i.e. there were only a few FY2018 slots left). As I understand it, this is a FY2019 board now - so it may not be quite as hard this time. I can't really say how many they will select, but hopefully it won't be as bad.

Thanks again! I'd like to think I have a reasonably competitive packet. A JD, 4 years of work experience, a high college GPA, and a 67 OAR hopefully at least mean something. Most of the people I know of that got selected last time already had intel-related job experience and had high GPAs in degrees that were on their list of preferred degrees.

As far as your stats go, those don't look bad. I've seen a few Economics majors get selected, even though it's not on their list of favored majors. A 64 OAR score is also pretty high!

As for interviews, as I understand it those are usually reserved for people who were rejected before and are now applying again. It's a way of proving to them that you deserve a second look.

One plus for you is that I likely won't be competition for you this time. My interview is still pending and probably won't get done in time for this board. So I'm likely going to have to wait until the next one. Still, Navy Intel is absolutely what I want to do with my life. So I'll keep on applying and hopefully get selected in the next board after this one.

Here's hoping we both get in!

 

[GlassBanger]

Personally, I find the importance of appraisal interviews a bit frustrating when not everyone has the same geographical exposure or network to nail these down. DC-area applicants seem to have much more luck with this.

We do the best with what we have. Hoping for the best!

I live in Arizona and there are 0 in the entire state when I needed it (they don't need to be reservists, and Skype appraisals are an option) I ended up having to use a credit card to fly to Colorado for my appraisal. Not everyone that does manage to obtain an appraisal had it easy; if you want it bad enough, you make it happen.

 

[SirDataDetective]

I live in Arizona and there are 0 in the entire state when I needed it (they don't need to be reservists, and Skype appraisals are an option) I ended up having to use a credit card to fly to Colorado for my appraisal. Not everyone that does manage to obtain an appraisal had it easy; if you want it bad enough, you make it happen.

I agree, but my issue hasn’t been traveling to them, it’s been finding them. I would gladly travel to meet with a high-ranking Officer for an appraisal interview.

Candidates should not be penalized for having a limited network in the field and not knowing the right people. If an objective view of a candidate’s potential is to be properly assessed, and appraisal interviews are given a high level of importance during an assessment, it might be best to make appraisals a requirement and have resources for finding proper interviewers provided to all.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[GlassBanger]

I agree, but my issue hasn’t been traveling to them, it’s been finding them. I would gladly travel to meet with a high-ranking Officer for an appraisal interview.

Candidates should not be penalized for having a limited network in the field and not knowing the right people. If an objective view of a candidate’s potential is to be properly assessed, and appraisal interviews are given a high level of importance during an assessment, it might be best to make appraisals a requirement and have resources for finding proper interviewers provided to all.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I'm curious about a few things; how did you come under the impression that you are penalized for not having an appraisal in your application? It isn't a required component. Recruiters on here will be quick to tell you that an appraisal isn't necessary and even if it were a good one, that it won't do you much good unless you're competitive elsewhere.

I am just perplexed as to where you heard that appraisals are this hugely important and prioritized part of an IWC application?

 

[SirDataDetective]

I'm curious about a few things; how did you come under the impression that you are penalized for not having an appraisal in your application? It isn't a required component. Recruiters on here will be quick to tell you that an appraisal isn't necessary and even if it were a good one, that it won't do you much good unless you're competitive elsewhere.

I am just perplexed as to where you heard that appraisals are this hugely important and prioritized part of an IWC application?

This forum.

I didn’t even know about them prior to joining the site. Significant appraisals seem to be on everyone’s stat line, and is something that has been brought up a number of times on here.

I’ve spoken to a few individuals who got the Pro Rec Y nod, and all but one had appraisals completed. And that one had an O-6 as a LoR.

It seems to play in as a factor, but I understand that it is just one of many.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This forum.

I didn’t even know about them prior to joining the site. Significant appraisals seem to be on everyone’s stat line, and is something that has been brought up a number of times on here.

I’ve spoken to a few individuals who got the Pro Rec Y nod, and all but one had appraisals completed. And that one had an O-6 as a LoR.

It seems to play in as a factor, but I understand that it is just one of many.

not a single IWC person I ever had picked up had an officer interview, they all had excellent GPA's though and mostly tech degrees, I had some with average GPA's that did get interviews with IWC officers and for the most part they all rec'd "10's" but none were picked up, so that kind of tells you what is really important. LadyAsh had a great GPA so she would have stood out anyway.

 

[SirDataDetective]

Well that’s relieving to know.

 

[wakefijw]

Sounds like the only things that really matter are high GPA's and taking Calculus 1/2 and Physics (STEM degree). Even if I were to finish my Masters with all A's I would still only have a combined GPA of about 3.35. Does having DOD 8570 certs help out for IP? I know the program authorization says they do but this thread shows how helpful that is. Just trying to plan ahead and see what I can do in the next year to strengthen my package for when my degree is complete.

 

[Law_to_1830]

If you don't mind me asking, I'd like a quick bit of advice too.

I recognize that if I don't get in next time I apply with interviews, then I will have to upgrade my application drastically. How effective do you think the below options would be towards increasing my chances of getting in?

A. CIA: Work for a few years (2-4) in the CIA, then reapply for Navy Intel
B. FBI: Work for a few years (2-4) in the FBI, then reapply for Navy Intel
C. NCIS: Work for a few years (2-4) in NCIS, then reapply for Navy Intel
D. Go back to William & Mary and get a 2nd bachelor's degree in International Relations, would take 1 or 1.5 years due to my credits
E. Go back to William & Mary and get 2nd graduate degree in Public Policy, would take 2 years
OR
F. Go to a middling school and get 2nd and 3rd bachelor's degrees in International Relations and History, which would take one year

The extra degrees are a bit riskier since I have a family to provide for, degrees are expensive, and I can't work full time and study full time. So that means lots of student loans. Plus, an extra BA or MA would probably only take my combined GPA (based on combined credits in all degrees) from 3.53 to 3.65 - though International Relations is on the preferred degree list according to the PA.

 

[BBucciferro]

Just found this thread...submitted the application 2 weeks ago for this board. Good luck to everyone!

 

[wakefijw]

If you don't mind me asking, I'd like a quick bit of advice too.

I recognize that if I don't get in next time I apply with interviews, then I will have to upgrade my application drastically. How effective do you think the below options would be towards increasing my chances of getting in?

A. CIA: Work for a few years (2-4) in the CIA, then reapply for Navy Intel
B. FBI: Work for a few years (2-4) in the FBI, then reapply for Navy Intel
C. NCIS: Work for a few years (2-4) in NCIS, then reapply for Navy Intel
D. Go back to William & Mary and get a 2nd bachelor's degree in International Relations, would take 1 or 1.5 years due to my credits
E. Go back to William & Mary and get a Master's in Public Policy, would take 2 years
OR
F. Go to a middling school and get 2nd and 3rd bachelor's degrees in International Relations and History, which would take one year

The extra degrees are a bit riskier since I have a family to provide for, degrees are expensive, and I can't work full time and study full time. So that means lots of student loans. Plus, an extra BA or MA would probably only take my combined GPA (based on combined credits in all degrees) from 3.53 to 3.65 - though International Relations is on the preferred degree list according to the PA.

Just something to consider, but have you thought about either going active or reserves in an IWC Rate? The 18-year-old guys will probably talk some trash but if you got a good head on your shoulders leadership will quickly notice. IW rates also advance fast so you'll rank up quick too. It would be a good way to get experience (you can get your IW warfare qualification) and make some contacts. Leadership will definitely notice you if you put in the effort and help you out. I knew a guy in sub school who got picked up half way through, so it's not impossible. Once they realize you are not some kid they need to babysit who is going to come in drunk, buy a mustang at 50% APR or marry a stripper you'll probably be treated with more respect. The chain of command will be on your side not only because it looks good on their evals and fitreps, but they will get you where you want to be. You seem deadset on joining the Navy and serving your country so I wouldn't recommend it to someone who wasn't. Worst case is you hate it, do four years, satisfy your itch to serve and come out with the GI BILL and veteran preference for those government agency jobs.