Jesus, are you f'ing autistic? This is like trying to get Rainman to miss Wapner.
I really am asking because you seem to need a checklist to understand the differences between favors, gifts, and bribes. Normal people understand this intuitively.
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96's and long weekends at TBS
- Thread starter WinterMute
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Jesus, are you f'ing autistic? This is like trying to get Rainman to miss Wapner.
I really am asking because you seem to need a checklist to understand the differences between favors, gifts, and bribes. Normal people understand this intuitively.
Just a shot in the dark, but that reference is most likely before his time.
Clux4
Banned
I am not sure it is possible to develop autism mid-life but I will look into it.
There is really no big deal getting money early before the beginning of the next quarter unless you are at the end of the FY. So if you wanted to offer me money for no apparent reason...........
You never really answered my question in the scenario above. How do you charge a Marine caught switching duty for cash? I personally have never heard of this been prosecuted but I also have not seen everything. I can't be the only one on here that does not know the answer to this. I am sure all those that do not know will benefit as well.
KBayDog said:
You must really be some old guy. Mind telling us what was around during your time?
I am a really old guy, Junior.
Get the car key outta your ear, boy!
My example was purely to illustrate a point. Obviously you aren't getting it. Bribery and receiving bribes is illegal. If you accept private payment for doing official business, that's wrong. You know it is. Quit wasting my time.
Would any command prosecute someone for taking money for duty? Probably not. On the other hand, if I were in charge would I conduct a very direct counseling of the people involved? Most definitely. And don't go into,"Well, a case of beer is the same thing as giving money...." Maybe in some sense, it's similar, but everyone, except you, seems to understand the difference.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I know exactly where this is going... You're trying to question my "legitimacy" because you were prior enlisted for 6 years. And a non-prior doesn't know what they're talking about... I've heard it before.
First, I was enlisted for 2 1/2 years before I went to the Naval Academy. 10 years on Active Duty, and have now been in the reserves for coming up on 3 years. I've seen one or two of the "10% Lance Corporals". And surely you must know what I mean by the 10% guy... You spend 90% of your time on 10% of your people...
Reconjoe
Active Member
Exactly the opposite, at no point will I ever claim that your argument is wrong because you've never been prior enlisted. Likewise I despise priors who make this the basis of all their arguments on Airwarriors.
On the other hand, this is why I bring up my prior experience, because it's comments like yours that can easily offend an enlisted person or any priors who took pride in their earlier years. Maybe you had another meaning behind it, believe me I tried to see it, but my first gut reaction took over and all I read was "I'm going to insult you by suggesting you're dumb/shady enough that you should have just enlisted instead".
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
How do you become the typical 10% Lance Criminal without enlisting?? That's pretty much what I was trying to say...
By now, you should realize that officers are held to a higher standard. His statements weren't really living up to that standard.
marchbanksusmc
New Member
So we get 96 hours on most holidays. That was alot of reading in order to get to the point of the thread. 
Clux4
Banned
You know, all I really wanted was for you to answer my question. I was not trying to be difficult or prolong this discussion.
Buying me a case of beer for standing duty for you is no different from you giving me $15 for a case of beer. If you think money in this instance is bribery and a case of beer is not then there is problem.
But here is where I differ with you on the issue. I don't consider the case of beer or the money bribe. Here is the definition of bribe from an online dictionary:
bribe
/braɪb/ Show Spelled [brahyb] Show IPA noun, verb, bribed, brib·ing.
–noun
1.
money or any other valuable consideration given or promised with a view to corrupting the behavior of a person, esp. in that person's performance as an athlete, public official, etc.: The motorist offered the arresting officer a bribe to let him go.
The Marine is either going to take the watch or he/she is not. Standing duty/watch is just that; there is no desired outcome at stake for anyone in particular. The "gift" of beer or money is not going to corrupt anything or anyone. Remember that the arrangement is between two people(Marines) and that the function of the duty is not jeopardized.
Of course standing duty/watch has its teachable moments and it is great experience for all, especially when you stand duty in high-vis post/command. So I agree with getting Marines to stand duty/watch as much as possible and as often as necessary but unless you make a local policy as a unit commander and then prosecute offenders, there is very little leg to stand on the legality of this.
You're sea lawyering this to death.
Cash is culturally different than goods, whether or not it is the same value-wise. Try giving your wife two twenties instead of a bouquet if you doubt this.
If you're turning a cash profit in the course of your official duties, you're shady. There are plenty of things that we don't actually prosecute people for that are still wrong. From time to time there are also things that are prosecuted that aren't really that wrong, but that's a horse of a different color, sts.
Cash is culturally different than goods, whether or not it is the same value-wise. Try giving your wife two twenties instead of a bouquet if you doubt this.
If you're turning a cash profit in the course of your official duties, you're shady. There are plenty of things that we don't actually prosecute people for that are still wrong. From time to time there are also things that are prosecuted that aren't really that wrong, but that's a horse of a different color, sts.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Hey Mr. "This is the definition from an online dictionary so therefore I'm in the clear." - check out the MCM. It doesn't define bribery as narrowly in scope as you do. I wonder which one takes precedence at an NJP/Courts Martial?
Clux4
Banned
I am not trying to sea lawyer this thing. I have copied and pasted - below, everything pertaining to bribery under Article 134. There was NO mention of cash. The preferred lingo is "thing of value". I am sure you will agree with me that this could be cash or a cup of coffee from Starbucks. More importantly, the condition that permits this is not much different from what I explained previously. MCM does not make provision for cultural/local norms, so I don't know where the wife comment will fit in.
Hey you, good you have something to contribute other than the "you should have been enlisted" speech in your previous post.
In any case, below is bribery under Article 134. I have highlighted the explanation of this article. For my sake and everyone else reading this, could you please point out the difference between the dictionary definition or the excerpts from MCM. Why is one definition narrow and the other wide. Graft contemplates "personal advantage" or "gain" in a dishonest transaction as it relates to official duties. I don't think swapping duty/watch would be considered dishonest transaction, so this will also not apply.
66. Article 134—(Bribery and graft)
a. Text of statute. See paragraph 60.
b. Elements.
(1) Asking, accepting, or receiving.
( a ) That the accused wrongfully asked , accepted,
or received a thing of value from a certain
person or organization;
(b) That the accused then occupied a certain
official position or had certain official duties;
(c) That the accused asked, accepted, or received
this thing of value (with the intent to have
the accused’s decision or action influenced with
respect to a certain matter)* (as compensation for or
in recognition of services rendered, to be rendered,
or both, by the accused in relation to a certain matter)**;
(d) That this certain matter was an official matter
in which the United States was and is interested;
and
(e) That, under the circumstances, the conduct
of the accused was to the prejudice of good order
and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature
to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
(*Note: This element is required for bribery.)
(**Note: This element is required for graft.)
(2) Promising, offering, or giving.
(a) That the accused wrongfully promised, offered,
or gave a thing of value to a certain person;
(b) That this person then occupied a certain
official position or had certain official duties;
(c) That this thing of value was promised, offered,
or given (with the intent to influence the decision
or action of this person)* (as compensation for
or in recognition of services rendered, to be rendered,
or both, by this person in relation to a certain
matter)**;
(d) That this matter was an official matter in
which the United States was and is interested; and
(e) That, under the circumstances, the conduct
of the accused was to the prejudice of good order
and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature
to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
(*Note: This element is required for bribery.)
(**Note: This element is required for graft.)
c. Explanation. Bribery requires an intent to influence
or be influenced in an official matter; graft
does not. Graft involves compensation for services
performed in an official matter when no compensation
is due.
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