A decision to make

[GroundPounder]

If you get hired in December at a major and then leave in January, you better hope USERRA applies because you just shot yourself heting hired at that major. And if a future application asks for employment history past your Navy time, you can be sure they will let any employer who asks you quit right after being hired. So if you have the Navy acceptance and that is your route, you need to turn down any job offer before you start and not interview while waiting for your OCS start.

I’d talk to a lawyer who knows about USERRA and make damn sure it covers you if you plan on accepting at a major than leaving for OCS.

Be very wary of unintended consequences.

Just out of curiosity, would they not be pissed if you left for 10 years and then came back? All I know about the airlines is ridding in 34A, but I guess the thought is that in 10 years if you came back, it could be a 1 for 1 swap for someone that was retiring even if the bottom fell out and there was no need for new pilots. Obviously a very simplistic way of looking at something that is complex, and that I don't know the inner workings of.

 

[ABMD]

View attachment 32444

Chipotle's rice is the differentiator.

Now Qdoba, that is just Taco Bell 2.0

 

[villo0692]

I am shipping out to OCS and going to flight school later on, and I am enforcing the USERRA thingy in order for my company (had to get a contact in the department of labor for this and what not) to keep my job position for me. As far as I am aware, they are obligated to keep said position open for up to 5 years. Now I know this wouldn't really matter much to me since as a pilot I'd be in the Navy for at least 10 years, I just want it there in case I get injured or medically dropped. I'd definitely get well informed before accepting a position and leaving, not sure about how airlines work with the military, but it just seems unlikely that they will actually be under any kind of obligation with you after 10 years. Could be wrong....this is just based on what I've personally experienced with my work. FWIW I work for a big defense contractor

 

[sevenhelmet]

USERRA obligates employers to hold your position for 5 years max, so your seniority number won't hold until your MSR. Even as a DOR/attrite insurance policy, you won't be generating goodwill toward your name in the airline world by grabbing a seniority number and bailing. You might have trouble getting hired on later, as some have already said. That's also assuming the USN doesn't obligate you to remain on AD in a non-flying job- a distinct possibility in an increasingly undermanned military.

Bottom line: You need to commit to one course or the other. If the seniority number is more important to you, take the major airline job now, and enjoy your aviation career. You'll enjoy solid lifetime earnings, and you won't have to deal with any of what's discussed in this thread. If serving in the military is important to you, go do that, and let the airline chips fall where they may later.

Final thought: Planning on just serving your MSR and getting out probably isn't the best mindset with which to begin a career in naval aviation. Not intended as a jab, just food for your own self-reflection.

Good luck! ?

 

[Jim123]

Extra points if you can name the artist.

I'm going to have to munch on that question for a while.

 

[Dontcallmegump]

Chipotle's rice is the differentiator.

Now Qdoba, that is just Taco Bell 2.0

Everyone in this thread jack is wrong.

You haven't lived until you've tasted the work of art that is Freebirds World Burrito. All others are trash.

It is a tragedy they are only in east Texas ?

 

[sevenhelmet]

Van Gogh

 

[scoolbubba]

.....I'm confident that after military flying along with a healthy amount of 121 time I won't have an issue getting picked up by a major. I am still enrolled in Aviate and even got an interview with another major in October for shits and giggles. Lets say I get a CJO from a major, get on property with a seniority number and all that jazz in December, but then leave in January to OCS and to serve for ten years. Everything I have gathered online points to me being protected under USERRA. However, there is no timeframe I must give notice to me leaving to serve. Should I just give the traditional two weeks notice? Anyone have experience with this? Thanks!

This plan is terrible. You're counting on a wave occurring when you get out in over a decade from now (maybe, maybe not and we are in another industry turndown), you're counting on a major keeping your job for you longer than they are legally obligated (they won't hold your spot longer than 5 years), you're counting on your behavior not fucking over another mil guy leaving in food faith in the future (it will). Do not do this. Don't waste an interviewers time at a Major if you aren't going to actually work there.

Commit to one route or the other. Or do both and go to the ANG and tell the Navy to get fucked. Trust me, you'll be much happier in the end. And richer, too.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Everyone in this thread jack is wrong.

You haven't lived until you've tasted the work of art that is Freebirds World Burrito. All others are trash.

It is a tragedy they are only in east Texas ?

They’re all over DFW, Waco/Austin/San Antonio/I-35 corridor, and Houston. Only one in Tyler that I’d consider East Texas

 

[scoolbubba]

I’m just excited Torchy’s is about to put Fuzzy’s outta business in my town.

 

[gparks1989]

I seriously mean all of these as neutrals, but boil it down to basics...

Money vs. Adventure

Service vs. Employment

Decide what you want more than the other. Looking back, ten years isn't that long, but then again I have never worked for an airline so I get that senority is a big deal.

When you are 75 do you want to say "I was an airline pilot." or "I was a naval aviator."...or both?

What he said. If you want to be an airline pilot you're in a sweet spot, but if you want to try to Fly Navy you have the ticket in hand. Also ANG isn't a sure bet if service is important for you.

 

[RedFive]

Fuck, am I really reading this post? I can't believe my eyes. @chipotlehater69, you're not listening to a lot of wise, older aviators who are giving you the right advice. Every time you've posted and your resolve to join the Navy seemingly increased, my heart sank just a little bit more. These guys are trying to save you from yourself. Fucking wake up and listen to them.

Thanks for all the insightful advice. I had tried Air National Guard up and down the west coast but all of them said that they wanted prior military pilots or that there was at least a dozen ahead of me.

You didn't try hard enough bro. My squadron is hiring both winged military pilots AND straight civilians like you. Not only that, but the Air Force's new pilot training system will basically allow you to bypass the majority of flight school (much to the dismay of many of us, but that's another discussion). As a commercial pilot, they'll send you to a very, very abbreviated flight school, you'll get your wings, and then you'll go on to learn your final platform. You'll also be permanently assigned to your specific Guard/Reserve squadron and never have to move if you don't want to. Or you can commute. Do you know how many people would kill for that?

Everything I have gathered online points to me being protected under USERRA.

I have not discussed with a lawyer yet however I'm fairly certain I am covered from what I have gathered online.

No. No you're NOT protected. USERRA maxes out at FIVE YEARS. You're going to owe the Navy two years for flight school and eight years after winging. United will NOT be obligated to hold your position. Now, it's possible they could hold it out of the kindness of their hearts, but the law does not require them to do anything for you beyond FIVE YEARS. When guys drop military leave of absence at Delta, the company will literally call the squadron to confirm it....for just a handful of days or weeks. These companies don't like USERRA, they're not going to bend over backwards to help you keep your dream job. Source: I invoke USERRA several times per month, I know how to play it and how it works. I've read the law and you should too. Cliff notes from DOL attached.

Bottom line, if you want to press-to-test this, by all means go for it. Because I also need that slot at United. The last three pages here are guys trying to do you a solid. But we can't fix stupid. If you do wake up, PM me and I'll send you my squadron's hiring ad.

 

[AllAmerican75]

@chipotlehater69 what happens if you go to OCS and get NPQ'ed (aka the NAMI Whammy)? What happens if you get to Pensacola and get the NAMI Whammy? Have you considered that?

 

[taxi1]

Final thought: Planning on just serving your MSR and getting out probably isn't the best mindset with which to begin a career in naval aviation.

if he plans to serve to MSR and bail, then by definition he’s not planning on a career in naval aviation. It’s a great mindset, though, for someone who wants to extract maximal flying juice from a 10 year stint.

@chipotlehater69 what happens if you go to OCS and get NPQ'ed (aka the NAMI Whammy)? What happens if you get to Pensacola and get the NAMI Whammy? Have you considered that?

That’s exactly what USERRA would protect him from. If the defect was enough to rear its ugly head in commercial flying too, then all the better to have found it out sooner.

 

[gparks1989]

Fuck, am I really reading this post? I can't believe my eyes. @chipotlehater69 you're not listening to a lot of wise, older aviators who are giving you the right advice. Every time you've posted and your resolve to join the Navy seemingly increased, my heart sank just a little bit more. These guys are trying to save you from yourself. Fucking wake up and listen to them.

If @chipotlehater69's dream is to fly in the Navy, he'd be passing up a golden opportunity that won't present itself again. Having said that, I'm curious to know the motivations for applying to OCS...COVID fall back plan? Applied on a dare? I suspect that it wasn't to fulfill a childhood dream - because otherwise it'd be a no brainer decision and bags would be packed for Newport - and was a COVID plan B or something similar. That's not a good reason to join the military, and certainly won't put one in a good state of mind if the Navy doesn't live up to expectations.