A Naval Aviator's Typical Day and Duties...?

[SticknRudder]

Mornin', Gentlemen!

First thing I'll say is I've scoured this site and every other site on the Internet over the last few weeks (I even purchased and watched the mini-series "Carrier" front to back more than once)...just to cover that base, so you can't rib me too much!

I don't suppose y'all can help a bit...I'm looking for an insider-perspective on the everyday life of an Aviator -- both on shore and at sea. I'm a current Airline guy flying an RJ, and am pretty sure that the status-quo is not what I want to have done with my life...scratch that, I know it isn't. I'm fairly familiar with the Military, but know very little about the Navy side of things. Did two years AFROTC in college, non-select BDCP as a sophomore, twin-brother is enlisted Marines, and I've been picked up by the Air Guard in a heavy-capacity (been drilling with them several months now waiting for class-dates).

Obviously I'm jonesin' for a fighter (and heck no JSF...Rhino all the way), but am ready to take any airframe bestowed upon me. As a fighter-guy, I know all of my flight-time will be PIC, so if I end up losing my mind and decide to head back to the airlines after my ten years, I can at least bypass the regionals. What concerns me most about the prop/helo community is that lack of PIC time combined with the possibility of two or more tours non-flying. Having left the RJ from the right-seat, I'd rather jump off the carrier than go back to the regionals (as opposed to Nirvana...ie FedEx, UPS, Southwest) for my PIC-requirement post-Navy. Is this a grounded fear?

So now I've finished training and joined the fleet...how much flight-time can I expect in the three communities? I've heard 10-30/mo consisting of 1.5 hour sorties for the fighters...so that is what, two to three days per week? What about props/helos? I'll probably be "that" guy begging, borrowing, and stealing flight-time LoL

How much paper-pushing and desk-flying can I expect? I have no problem pulling my fair-share through and through, but I'm just a bit concerned as the best part of my Airline gig is flying for 6-8 hours a day. And I have a general aversion to paperwork already...

Generally, will the second-tour always be a shore-duty gig? I would obviously look for another sea-tour, or an IP tour (I thoroughly enjoyed my CFI days). How often does this happen?

Back to reality, I'm trying for the November boards, but my OSO is difficult to get a hold of...all the time. That is a problem, because If I'm selected, I'd like to know before I screw my Guard unit out of a Pilot-slot, not giving them enough time to speed up my alternate...Also, every drill I attend would make it more difficult to turn it down -- they are a great group of guys and I'm not looking forward to pissing off a squadron...heck, a whole wing...of good friends.

So let's say I miss the next board or three, and I'm now commissioned 2nd LT AF...what can of worms does that open? Is it a simple-transfer? Do I pass go, collect $200, and head straight to IFS, API, etc...or do I wait now for a spot in Navy OCS?

Here are my basic stats:

Age 24
B.S. Aeronautical Sciences 3.62 GPA
ASTB 7/7/7 - 65
3000+ TT, 2500 Jet
LOR's: Captain and AFRes C-17 Major, Company Check-Airman, Chief Pilot, numerous Personal

Any help would be appreciated...again, I've spent a ridiculous number of hours researching the internet, and these are what I can't answer myself.

Thanks again!

SnR

 

[Ducky]

(I even purchased and watched the mini-series "Carrier" front to back more than once)...just to cover that base, so you can't rib me too much!

That is about as good as telling us you watched TopGun and now want to be Maverick!

As to the rest of your post:

You either wan't to be a Naval Aviator or you don't. Naval Aviation means much more to most of us than just PIC time. I'll let the fleet guys answer your questions about the fleet, and I'll give you some info on flight school.

I was fortunate enough to select what I asked for; however, I wasn't #1 in my class and I could have easily been sent to fly anything else in the Navy inventory. I WAS LUCKY that I selected on the week I did. Navy IPs will not give a crap about your previously flight time, and some may try to break any bad habbits you may have developed along the way; however, if you are humble and keep a low profile your flying time will definitely help you climb to the top part of your class and you will have an advantage in the primary syllabus. If you walk around like you own the place and are a shit hot pilot they will crush you and flight school will be made painful by instructors as well as your peers. Example: Don't be the BI 14 student who is earning callsigns such as "Centered Ball" for bragging about his prowess of flying the break and landing the jet from the rear cockpit on his first flight.

Be apart of Naval Aviation for the service, fraternity, commraderie, and esprit de corps. I assure you that if those are the reasons you sign up you will not regret it and the PIC time will follow.

 

[AJTranny]

It doesn't matter really what you fly in the Navy. Everyone has non-flying tours and a metric shit-ton of paperwork. BTW, 1000 hornet hours is a lot for an entire 3 year tour unless things have changed a lot in the past year or so. Your hops are usually a 1.5 or so(assuming you fly that day) and the rest of the day is studying tactics or doing your ground job or standing watches. I loved the rhino, but there is so much more to it than flying. It can really be a huge pain in the butt dealing with the non-flying stuff so I'd make sure you really want to be an officer first because that is the hat you
wear the majority of the time.

 

[Moc1Sig]

I talked to an RJ frist officer after a flight one time that was selected guard. He was amped about the guard because he knew the guys he was going to be joining, (met them at the local bar... prob helped the app), was all shit hot about flying -16's, and that he would still have his RJ job. Sweet gig for him, I applied Navy because I want to be in the Navy. Wether aiming a plane at the deck, dropping seals on the beach, hunting subs, on a boat or at port its what I want to do and the AF didnt have anyspots for that.

Actual tip: keep trying to talk to you OSO, its their job. IF you can't reach them call their boss. I had to do this applying and while in BDCP.
- SNA2007 pretty right on the money. Local reserve CO was IP in meridian for years and said his worst wingon ever was a hotshit CFI with 3000 hrs.

 

[JD81]

+1 on the above statements. You're flight time will help you to a point. I had a decent amount of flight time coming in and it helped with the basics, but the way the military teaches flying vs. what you have had civil is completely different. You will know more and probably be more comfortable than most of your classmates at the beginning, but that is almost a bad thing because it can get you complacent quick (it did to me). There are no guarantees in Naval Aviation as far as airframe or platform, you can finish primary with an 80 nss (highest grade possible) and wind up in a P-3. If you want a guaranteed fighter platform you need to look at the USAF's ENJJPT program. Lastly, apply apply apply. The only thing they can tell you is no, it took me 3 times to get accepted. Hope all that made sense, good luck.

J

 

[SticknRudder]

Thanks for the replies so far!

To allay your concerns, I am most certainly joining the Navy to "join the Navy..." speaking and jumpseating with many, many former Pilots from every service has given me a respect for that.

SNA...You sure zeroed in on the PIC-time...! It certainly wasn't meant to read as my most important concern, but it is important for me only in that it gives me options once my commitment is up. As I alluded to in my OP, I don't see myself being an Airline Pilot now, or even in the future...but it would be nice to have that available to me in case I didn't make the Navy my career (which is seeming more and more unlikely every trip I fly in the RJ!). Remember, I'm giving up a hard-won Air Guard slot...something every guy I fly with has called me crazy and nuts for.

And I am most thankful for my prior flight time and experience in that it has erased any misconceptions and illusions I had as a low-time Pilot...now I know just enough to know better!

 

[MIDNJAC]

wan't

Your use of apostrophes is motivating

and were you referring to OK?

 

[A4sForever]

....Remember, I'm giving up a hard-won Air Guard slot...something every guy I fly with has called me crazy and nuts for....

O.K. ... you're crazy & nuts. Deal w/ it.

Stick w/ your 'expected' seat in the Guard ... the NAVY is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too crazy ... complicated, too. Big Blue is not for you.

You might screw up, get good grades, be 'there' @ the right time/place ... and have to fly off a carrier and get vertigo and crash & burn at the blunt end of the BOAT some dark & stormy night because you're all fucked up and didn't listen to the LSO ... that will wreak havoc w/ your program to accumulate serious flight time.

Or ....... Ahmed might bag you w/ a SAM-7 ... or Changpu might bag you w/ his Jian-10 ... that will also mess up your log book.

And, of course ... either occurrence will severely screw up your chances to return to the airline business ...

 

[ryan1234]

I've been lurking on here for a good while - but I made the plunge -

to the OP - You have a sweet deal with the Guard unit, many people would kill to get to be in your shoes (even if it is a component of the AF)..... The reason why I posted this is... I've personally had some really great opportunities open for me and I let them slip away - only to realize what I gave up later - it is a terrible feeling. Good luck in whatever you do... just think about what it is you're giving up. As far as the PIC deal goes... sooner or later you'll upgrade to AC.. from what I understand ANG heavy units are flying a good deal back and forth overseas.... also on the civilian side there is always the corporate world to build turbine PIC.

 

[Ave8tor]

Your use of apostrophes is motivating

and were you referring to OK?

Or possibly J.C.2?

+1 to SNA2007 (time to change, Ducky) for the obscure but relevant reference!

 

[SticknRudder]

A4's...I'm going to take just about your entire post as tongue-in-cheek...? LoL

ryan, I know exactly what I'm giving up...and it makes the decision an incredibly difficult one. But if I did go Guard, I'd pretty much be stuck with the Airlines too, as they go hand-in-hand so well...and I'd "accumulate serious flight time!" (that's for you, A4's )

No, I need a change in scenery, a greater challenge, and a chance to serve something other than myself...

 

[TheBubba]

No, I need a change in scenery, a greater challenge, and a chance to serve something other than myself...

Bubba thinks the wannabe understands it...

To answer your question about a typical day... here was my day today:

0700: Wake up with the intention of going for a run. Opted not too... still recovering from tailhook. Went back to bed.

0900: Wake up and accomplish the three S's. Eat breakfast, watch the news.

1100: Drive in to work. The next 6.5 hours of my life consist of paperwork... lots of paperwork. Processing NATOPS and Instrument quals, updating NATOPS jackets and tracking down overdue paperwork.

1800: Preflight brief for a section NVG fam.

1900: Walk down to maintenance control to read the book. Get dressed and walk out to the jet, get the bugger started and flyout over the Cascades. Meet up with lead in the area. Do some work out there and head home.

2215: Walk out of the squadron and head home. I got home a half hour later and realized I forgot to do some paperwork, and I have to add it to my to do list for tomorrow.

What's on the plate for tomorrow: More paperwork, taking my NATOPS test, mission planning and morning briefs.

-Bubba

 

[Ducky]

Or possibly J.C.2?

+1 to SNA2007 (time to change, Ducky) for the obscure but relevant reference!

The request is in for the change but perhaps the old webmaster is waiting on me to throw the site some dollars before he makes the change. Can't say I blame him.

MIDNJAC: yes I was talking about OK, J.C.2, J.C., Backseat Wonder, or Mr. Blowhardicus

SnR: Just making sure you know what you are getting into. Just like you are worried about screwing your guard unit out of a pilot slot, you would be doing the same to a potential SNA if you were accepted, and that is a big reason I warn you to make sure your heart is 100% in it. There is nothing wrong with making sure the Navy will fit your life goals and ambitions; however, don't advertise that you do not wan't a full career until you are 110% sure you are ready to get out because you never know how you boss might view that decision or mindset.

 

[zippy]

From the "Prop" side of the house I'd have to say it all boils down to luck and timing- just like everything else in the Navy. Hours wise, currently JOs flying P-3s are leaving their fleet tours with approximately 1000-1200hrs total time. I've heard EP-3 guys are leaving with more like 2000hrs. A time (PIC) is really a crapshoot based on when you check out (i.e. on deployment or where on the home cycle) and where you've deployed.

Minimum requirement is 700hrs total time (military flight time) to become Patrol Plane Commander (PPC) for P-3s. Some people are ready to go before that number and have to wait on hours, others have more then that number when they are finally complete with upgrading. And with P-3s, just because you are a qualified PPC- that doesn't mean you'll be signing for the plane. There is still a pecking order, and you have to wait for more senior JOs to check out before you get your own crew. It's not outside the realm of possibility to see 3 PPCs flying together due to pilot shortages... The senior guy will sign for the plane.

I know guys who have left their squadrons with almost 1000hrs of A time due to them being deployed to some very sandy parts of the world for long periods of time. Other people may leave with 200-300 if they don't deploy as a PPC or go on a deployment that involves less sand, and more beer.

Regarding multiple tours without flying- I once heard that the community detailer only guarantees you three flying tours- your JO tour, your DH tour and your XO/CO tour. Its been my observation that almost every pilot coming back for their DH tour has had one flying tour out of the two, sometimes three, tours in between their JO tour and DH tour (with a non-flying boat tour usually being the other tour). A several years ago, it was very hard for JOs to get flying shore tours- recently; most people who have wanted them have been able to find something. Maybe not the location, or type of flying they wanted (IE FRS, Advanced, Primary, Test&Evaluation, Research etc.) but flying in the end. Once again, it all boils down to luck and timing.

When it comes to being that guy who is begging, borrowing and stealing flight time- you may think that now but your attitude will change real quick once you hit your fleet squadron. For every flight, there is 2-3hours of pre-flight and an hour or more of post flight. Training flights last between 5-6.5hrs. Mission flights last 8-12hrs depending on where in the world you are. There is no real consistency to things, so you may be flying early one day, and through the night the following days... and on weekends. Squadrons are always short on pilots so if you are med up and crew rested, there is always a chance of getting thrown on a flight at the last minute. This is in addition to whatever ground job you may have. As you become more senior in the squadron, the more ground responsibilities you have. Even on days that you don't fly it will be easy to stay for 12+hrs catching up on things from the days you went flying or trying to get ahead on the next major task.

As other people have said, there is more to being a Naval Aviator then just flying. The Navy does expect you to be an Officer first and at different times during your career that may mean taking a non-flying desk/staff job or going to fight the GWOT on the ground. Also, as A4s was alluding to your flying is going to be a lot more dynamic then your CONUS airways navigation from airport A to Airport B. Down low doing ASW, up "high" supporting the guys on the ground- Operating alone and unafraid in international airspace in some not so friendly parts of the world- you may not come back one day even if you did everything right. If you think you can handle that then you are welcome to tryout for the club. If you don't think you can you might be better off sticking with your Guard bum gig. Out of curiosity, what unit is it and what do they fly (fee free to respond to that via PM)?

I have no idea how becoming commissioned in the Guard first will affect you becoming commissioned in the Navy if you chose to pursue it. You'll have to ask your Officer Recruiter.

 

[S.O.B.]

I thought this was an ecellent post

Nose's cruise schedule:

Crack of 0600: Hear no-loads being fired on CAT 3. Roll over, go back to sleep.
0700: Hear roommate #1 (CVW flight doc) roll out of rack to "go to work." Roll over, go back to sleep.
0730: Don't hear roomate #2 (CVW Strike Ops officer) roll out of rack to go to work. Roll over, go back to sleep.
0800: Hear roommate #3 (Other CVW LSO) roll out of rack for 0900 brief. Roll over, go back to sleep.
0900: Hear some whistles and somone saying something about sweepers. Roll over, back to sleep.
1030: Rudely awakened by Tomcat launching off of CAT 3.
1035: Begin morning piss and shower.
1045: Piss complete. Into shower.
1045-1105: Shower. Make new batch of drain babies.
1105-1115: Floss/brush. Shave. Dress. (BDU trou/white Flt Dk Jersey today)
1120: Walk 20 feet to CVW OPS office, check e-mail.
1130: Grab float coat. Start Aft.
1135: Stop in RR7, help the schedule writer see where I can fit in the Screwtop's schedule for tomorrow.
1140: Stop in RR8, grab ear plugs. Up to flight deck.
1145: Wave event 1 recovery, save a couple of lives.
1200: Chow. Chili Mac again.
1245: Turn over with other CAG LSO. Go to stateroom, put on bag, go to RR7 for brief.
1300: Brief.
1400: Walk
1415: Start
1430: Launch
1430-1545: Freedom.
1546: 3 wire. Awesome pass, has to be an OK.
1600: Get debrief from LSO. What I remember from the debrief "Blah blah blah blah blah, Fair 3." Respond with "Thanks for keeping me off the ramp, paddles." Dicks.
1615: Turn over with other CVW LSO, I've got the platfrom for the rest of the day.
1630: Check e-mail.
1645: Change back into waving gear.
1700: Wave next recovery, save a couple of lives.
1730: Dinner. Pork Adobo. Enjoy listening to Sidewinder JO's rag the OPS O. Dog is a little icy tonight.
1845: Wave last day recovery. Only save one life this time. Slightly overcast, sun going down. Glad I'm not flying tonight!!
1900: 40 minutes on Nordic track on Flag bridge. Man, is it dark out.
2015: Wave first night recovery. 4 Waveoffs. Dark as hell. Glad I'm not flying.
2030: Go to stateroom. Splitting headache. Get 3 Advil out of 5000count jar, wash down with Gatorade. Mental note to tell Doc Rusty to get us another 5000 count jar of Advil.
2145: Wave next night recovery. Man is it dark out. Almost star recovery, but S-3 nugget in the tanker bolters. Enjoy the 5 minutes of silence waiting for him to go around the pattern. Enjoy watching him fly a crappy-ass no-grade a bit less.
2200: Check flight schedules. Night trap tomorrow night. Spinchter tightens just a bit. RR3 rolling "Sands of Iwo Jima." God love the Marines.
2315: Wave last night recovery. Save a couple of lives. Star recovery. I rock.
2359: Midrats. Cereal. Popcorn. Watered down bug juice. Laugh and scratch listening to guys talk about flying tonight. Realize I get to go do it my own self in about 22 hours. Spinchter tightens a bit more.
0030: Back to CAG Ops. Do daily reports. Debrief CAG on sucky S-3 nugget.
0100: Back to room. Roomates watching football on AFN. Get out beach chair, pour Gatorade, eat pretzels, watch football.
0200: Brush teeth, into rack. Fade to sleep. Night trap tomorrow night.

Repeat 180 to 200 times.

I thought this was an excellent post.