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Active volcanic plumes are dangerous for jet engines...

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
This volcano has seriously f'd up our medical evacuations from theater. Nothing can get in or out of Germany, so we are having to fly them straight from Iraq/Afghanistan to Andrews. The medical folks are not exactly thrilled about that, because it's a much longer flight and not good for the patients.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
ACTUALLY ... it's quite possible you'd be time (and mebbe $$$$) AHEAD before this is all over if we still had these plying the Atlantic shipping lanes:

ssunitedstates1956.jpg


SS UNITED STATES pulling out of NYC in the middle '50s ... a very, very nice ride.

Volcano?? What volcano ... ??? Just don't say the word 'iceberg' around them ... :)
 

usmarinemike

Solidly part of the 42%.
pilot
Contributor
You know, I was wondering if there were any translant cruise ships out there still doing business. It's obviously not a practical way to get back and forth anymore, but for people who are taking an honest to God vacation from life to Europe I'd probably guess it's a pretty sweet way to travel.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
The latest news is some of the major airlines are probing gaps in the ash cloud (flying, but with no passengers):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_iceland_volcano

Which seems inevitable.

To think that all this time I thought the yellow pollen that coats cars and everything else every spring in northwest Florida was inconvenient :)
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
The latest news is some of the major airlines are probing gaps in the ash cloud.....
And that's what 'we' had to do in the Pacific, too -- otherwise, Anchorage and Tokyo would have been severely affected and shut down for long periods of time.



Mt. Redoubt @ 100 NM SW of ANC was quite active @ 1989 and that's when she 'caught' that KLM WHALE --and shut down all 4 of her engines
-- they got them started and prevented a disaster, but it was a near miss. Our superb, pro-active airline METRO (historically a leader in the airline industry) had an alert out over the WX wires for over 24 hours, but KLM was either not in the loop or they disregarded what information was available -- which is not an infrequent occurrence with foreign carriers when the information comes from a US airline. Unlucky or stubborn, the Dutchies flew into the cloud .... their after-action report read in part: "a factor related to the accident was: the lack of available information about the ash cloud to all personnel involved."

"Lack of available information ... "
??? Like I said ... 'we knew'. :)

When Myakejima (@ 120 NM S of NRT) was belching for @ a year and a half starting @ 2000, we had to alter the arrival & departure routes in/out of Tokyo. It eventually got to be overkill which is not atypical of the ATC bureaucracy, no matter what country from which they hail. As time progressed, the eruptions subsided, the sky was CAVU and the eruptions were minimal (and clearly visible as depicted below), but TYO ATC still required all arrivals to go NW, N and NE of NRT and HND even when arriving from the east or south. Habit ... procedure ... mindset.

910-34.JPG


Soooooooooooo .... some enterprising pilots :))) eventually chose a re-route plan to fly just to the NW of Myakejima (when arriving from the south), staying upwind of the volcanic island and in the clear -- and thus saving @ 20 minutes and beaucoup fuel on a regular and repeated basis. Tokyo ATC and NRT Ops called the crew hotel & wanted to know how that was possible -- they were shown how it was 'possible' -- and after much sucking of teeth and hissing (I'm not talkin' about the volcano here), in the future they occasionally offered and/or always accepted requests for that routing, meteorological conditions permitting. :icon_wink

You do what you gotta' do -- it's one of those occasions when safety, training, good operational 'sense', experience, and headwork all hopefully come together to make a better mousetrap and do the right thing.

I hope that's what happens -- and soon -- conditions permitting in Europe. Otherwise the effects are going to be a hammer in the head to the nascent 'economic recovery' for a large part of the world -- and it goes without saying, to the detriment of the economic health of the many airlines involved.
 

FlyinRock

Registered User
The volcanic ash is not only dangerous for jets, they raise hell with any kind of engines exposed to the ash. Mt St Helens created a lot of misery for people downwind. I had flown around the mountain for a photo shoot just weeks before it blew. A good friend flying ag over near the Palouse in eastern WA told me when the cloud reached his area, he was flying trying to get in the last few loads. On the last load he said it was weird when his whole cockpit seemed to lose its reflectivness and it caused him to go IFR inside!
The locals of the Columbia Basin told me of nighttime conditions in mid day, ash piling up all over the place, cars losing power as their filters clogged, and eventually trashing their engines. A/C units were trashed for the same reasons, and countless aircraft engines lost hundreds of hours TBO if they weren't completely beyond repair.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Where there's a will, there's a way department??

In a semi-replay of Dunkirk:


[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]UK sends warships to rescue stranded Britons

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]" .... In London, Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal and assault ship HMS Ocean would be sent across the English Channel. A third ship is being sent to Spain to pick up soldiers trying to get back to Britain after a tour of duty in Afghanistan ...."[/FONT]
 

Cron

Yankee Uniform Tango
I'm supposed to fly to Europe for a wedding next week. This is all pretty unfortunate as I'm the best man...or was one.

Personally I think a volcanic eruption is a sure sign of God trying to put a stop to this wedding. :tongue2_1
 

JollyGood

Flashing Dome
pilot
You know, I was wondering if there were any translant cruise ships out there still doing business. It's obviously not a practical way to get back and forth anymore, but for people who are taking an honest to God vacation from life to Europe I'd probably guess it's a pretty sweet way to travel.

But, you pay a pretty penny for it. Cunard Line operate crossings with the Queen Mary 2 and Queen Victoria. The "newish" Queen Mary 2 is a freaking sweet ride and does the transatlantic crossing all summer long. http://www.cunard.com/

Also, if I was gonna do a transatlantic, I would be rolling in a one of the tall ships from Star Clippers (http://www.starclippers.com/), but they only have voyages I think twice a year if that.


I would definitely agree with you though, a great way to travel if you have the bank roll to cover it.
 

JollyGood

Flashing Dome
pilot
I heard the last time this volcano erupted was in the 1800s and it kept on spewing ash for several years. Hopefully, this eruption subsides soon and stays that way so the aircraft industry can get up and running again.

Also, I was at LHR trying to make my way to Paris in 2006 when many domestic and international flights were grounded for 4 days during the holiday rush due to heavy fog. Nothing to the extent caused by this eruption, but let's just say that Eurostar immediately raised their prices to 4 times the normal price to cross the Channel and profited very nicely from everyone scrambling to find a way to travel. I think it would be safe to assume that their business is booming.

I got a great story out of it though as I eventually crossed the Channel by ferry from Dover to Calais, only to find out that I was too late to catch a train to Paris. Had to spend the night in the French equivalent of a "pay by the hour" hotel right by the port. My eyes saw some interesting things and people that night.
 

squeeze

Retired Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Boo Hoo. People are stuck in Europe. There are shit ton of us stuck in Kuwait that can't get home from CENTCOM because of this. First it was a revolution in Kyrgyzstan, now it's an Icelandic volcano. I have no pity for people who can saddle up to an airport bar and pass the time away.
 

SkywardET

Contrarian
Q: When's the best time to have a volcanic eruption?

A: Eons ago.

Read on another forum that this was Iceland's revenge against Britain for the behavior of its banks. Seemed pretty funny at the time, but a continental no-fly zone over a global-scale trade and commercial hub is pretty rough stuff.
 

FlyinRock

Registered User
AMEN and Semper Fi for you. Been there/done that and it sucks.
Bravo for you and the troops in country.
Semper Fi
Rocky
 
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