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Advanced atmosphere.
- Thread starter BrittO
- Start date
The sim instructors at meridian for the most part are much more demanding. I heard some stories about the sim instructors here before I started. I thought it was just hype...like it was in primary. Believe the hype. From my experience the IP's treat the sna's about the same as they did in primary.
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
Haha. Get P3-'s. Life is good.
BrittO said:
The IPs are better. It's a different atmosphere. It's not necessarily a weeding out process, they're here for you to teach you and make sure you get through, but ONLY if you do your part. They don't have chips on their shoulders like some of the guys in Primary did. The sim IPs... yeah that's another story. Some of them are quite... interesting. Primary sim IPs were PUSSY CATS. If you think they were scary, you'll want to kill yourself in the jet sim, it's night and day difference. However, they generally know their sh!t and want you to be at your best. They're being "mean" for a purpose... it's a stress inducer and just a big game. You actually start to like some of the "mean" ones. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of nice guy sim IPs too, but even they can be pissed off by sub-par performance. The general motto here? Don't suck.
Good call asking this question before you select. If you go jets, be ready to hate whole weeks of your life, be told your best flights are "alright", and not sleep the night before you pull certain sim instructors. Be ready to eat humble pie, every day, every way. Bring a bib-it gets messy.
BUT...also be ready to drop bombs, fly low levels and attack 'targets' of opportunity with your buddies, take off behind an instuctor and try to whup his arse, and more realistically, take off behind an instructor and try not to get your own arse whupped.
Bottom line-Jet school is wicked intense, and sometimes it takes all the fun out of life. But man, sometimes you lay awake at night smiling becasue your job is so sweet.
Good luck
BUT...also be ready to drop bombs, fly low levels and attack 'targets' of opportunity with your buddies, take off behind an instuctor and try to whup his arse, and more realistically, take off behind an instructor and try not to get your own arse whupped.
Bottom line-Jet school is wicked intense, and sometimes it takes all the fun out of life. But man, sometimes you lay awake at night smiling becasue your job is so sweet.
Good luck
yes. things are very front loaded here like in Primary, but 10x more. Study your ass off through the first 4 flights in a "block", then because nothing new is introducted in say, formation, just go in there and coast through the next 19 flights. then it starts all over again.
things are great, but sometimes before a stressful event or after a bad day..... things suck. would I give it up for anything? not a chance.
things are great, but sometimes before a stressful event or after a bad day..... things suck. would I give it up for anything? not a chance.
Agree with what has been said already. Also . . . coming off the Primary MPTS syllabus . . . WATCH YOUR GRADES. Average is not truly average here . . . you need to shoot for as many aboves as possible. You will only get likely one (rarely two) per flight and a net below average can hose you for some stages. Don't obsess too much, but the grading system here IMHO is more complex, subjective, and vague than Primary was. In order to play the game, you first need to know how it is played.
Jet land is the last bastion of the original Navy grading system in the training command. You get aboves, belows, and averages. If you average out through training, you're below average. What's above average? Depends on the experience level and anality of the IP. One above and one below, do not necessarily average out to "average."
Personally I prefer the MPTS myself although I may be biased due to being exposed to it first. I note your comment about one above and one below not necessarily being "average," as mathematically it is, however as you said an average student will not get all averages, which can be confusing as only a rock star gets ALL one aboves. So the true, 50 NSS "Average" is somewhere in between. And as you said, fly with anal IPs and you won't do as well as your equally talented buddy who flies more with Santa. Currently in Jet land there also seems to be a big push to make average just that, or that at least is the rumor among the studs.gatordev said:
The thing that frustrates me about the TS grading system is that it is difficult to "read between the lines" about how well you did on an individual flight. If you have a good flight, the IP picks a random thing you did well and gives you an above. Otherwise all is average unless you did good AND bad in which case you get the aforementioned above/below split. Or hose something up and get one below or unsat. As I said, a very murky, subjective business at times. I think MPTS gives you a more detailed view of your strengths and weaknesses, and is more objective. The instructor HAS to grade you on everything, which is more time consuming. Also, in MPTS those who are struggling get a better handle on it early (not making MIF, marginal flights, non-pink sheet unsats, etc.) which I believe is preferable to the mid-stage/end-of-stage marginal business (keep "passing" someone and oh, by the way you're not doing so hot).
Question: "Headwork" .... "Airmanship" .... ???
Do they still exist on the Advanced grading sheets??? They were always the great "catch-all" wherein an Instructor could give at least 2 "aboves" --- or "belows" --- to the deserving STUD. Those two categories, marked again, and again, and again ... made a BIG difference in one's overall GPA at the end of the day.
Made a big difference in orders, too.
Do they still exist on the Advanced grading sheets??? They were always the great "catch-all" wherein an Instructor could give at least 2 "aboves" --- or "belows" --- to the deserving STUD. Those two categories, marked again, and again, and again ... made a BIG difference in one's overall GPA at the end of the day.
Made a big difference in orders, too.
nittany03 said:
Interesting. Guess it varies from system to system. When I went through HT advanced (back when it was old school), an above and a below were not mathematically equal. I forget where it was that happened. I think it was if you had a one above flight, you got a higher GPA for that flight then if someone had a two above and one below flight. So in the end, you had to have a minimum number of aboves, but the number of belows would off set the GPA a bit. At least how I remember it.
Again, I know it's a different community/system/timeframe, but I'm guessing that this isn't exactly true. And one way they do actually give you feedback that's "worthwhile" is just what A4s is saying. Headwork and SA are almost always great catch-alls, both in the fleet, as well as back in the TRACOM, still to this day. Again, I understand what you're saying, and you may be right, but just with my IP hat on, I'm guessing it's slightly more intentional than what you're saying.
Point taken, and I suppose the selection of the "above" items is not really "random" per se, but these days, though "headwork," "procedures," and "basic airwork" are still on the ATFs, it's very very rare to see anything more than net one above on the whole sheet. Sometimes if an IP wants to ding you or throw you a bone he may do it in one of those three.
Two above is generally viewed on our end as rocking the flight AND having a cool IP that would give you the 2 aboves. Some just won't do that, one is pretty much their limit unless they flew with God or something. I've heard of one guy getting a three above flight. So the focus seems to be on the net aboves rather than grading each item.
That said, the comments are where I look to remember what I goofed up and need to work on or did well.
Two above is generally viewed on our end as rocking the flight AND having a cool IP that would give you the 2 aboves. Some just won't do that, one is pretty much their limit unless they flew with God or something. I've heard of one guy getting a three above flight. So the focus seems to be on the net aboves rather than grading each item.
That said, the comments are where I look to remember what I goofed up and need to work on or did well.
BrittO,
Since you have gotten the full Meridian perspective, I thought I'd offer some Kingsville thoughts.
I had heard nothing but bad things about the "atmosphere" at jet advanced. Hell, I put helos as my first choice! However, now that I'm through the program, I would have put jets first, second, and third. I really enjoyed my training here. The atmosphere is FAR better than primary.
First off, there is no "attrition is the mission" mentality here. The first impression I got when I started up was that the IPs (and 90% of the sim guys) was that they really wanted us to succeed. The idea that all jet guys are "screamers" and want to make your life miserable is BS. Sure, there are some bad apples here and there, but by and far the IPs, the command, and even the sim guys are top notch. I would take the worst sim guy here over the worst sim guy in primary ANY day.
You do have to watch your grades here. I never kept track of my grades in Primary until the week of selection, and I prided myself on not giving a damn. Why bother? Are you going to fly any better whether you know your grades or not? However, that bit me in the buttocks when I finished BIs and RIs below marginal at advanced. The good news is that if you DO keep track of your progress here and you need some help, all you have to do is ask. Class advisors, senior Marines, etc. will do what is necessary to help you succeed as long as you are making the effort and aren't a dirtbag.
All this boils down to being treated like a professional. My entire time here, I felt like I was treated with far more respect than was the case in primary. A lot more is expected of you, but you are treated better because of that. This may have more to do with the command than the pipeline. Which brings me to my final point. Choose Kingsville.
This is not a dig on Meridian guys. I think they produce just as good of pilots as K-Rock. It's not an issue of quality of training, pilots, or jets. From what I have heard and experienced, it seems that the quality of life is better here. I was convinced by a Meridian grad that I would be better off going to Kingsville. If you have additional requirements or priorities that make Meridian more attractive, go for it. But all things being equal, I think you will be much happier in Kingsville, especially if you are concerned about "atmosphere".
I have no first hand experience in Meridian, so feel free to chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
Since you have gotten the full Meridian perspective, I thought I'd offer some Kingsville thoughts.
I had heard nothing but bad things about the "atmosphere" at jet advanced. Hell, I put helos as my first choice! However, now that I'm through the program, I would have put jets first, second, and third. I really enjoyed my training here. The atmosphere is FAR better than primary.
First off, there is no "attrition is the mission" mentality here. The first impression I got when I started up was that the IPs (and 90% of the sim guys) was that they really wanted us to succeed. The idea that all jet guys are "screamers" and want to make your life miserable is BS. Sure, there are some bad apples here and there, but by and far the IPs, the command, and even the sim guys are top notch. I would take the worst sim guy here over the worst sim guy in primary ANY day.
You do have to watch your grades here. I never kept track of my grades in Primary until the week of selection, and I prided myself on not giving a damn. Why bother? Are you going to fly any better whether you know your grades or not? However, that bit me in the buttocks when I finished BIs and RIs below marginal at advanced. The good news is that if you DO keep track of your progress here and you need some help, all you have to do is ask. Class advisors, senior Marines, etc. will do what is necessary to help you succeed as long as you are making the effort and aren't a dirtbag.
All this boils down to being treated like a professional. My entire time here, I felt like I was treated with far more respect than was the case in primary. A lot more is expected of you, but you are treated better because of that. This may have more to do with the command than the pipeline. Which brings me to my final point. Choose Kingsville.
This is not a dig on Meridian guys. I think they produce just as good of pilots as K-Rock. It's not an issue of quality of training, pilots, or jets. From what I have heard and experienced, it seems that the quality of life is better here. I was convinced by a Meridian grad that I would be better off going to Kingsville. If you have additional requirements or priorities that make Meridian more attractive, go for it. But all things being equal, I think you will be much happier in Kingsville, especially if you are concerned about "atmosphere".
I have no first hand experience in Meridian, so feel free to chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.