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Aerobatic training

navy_or_bust

New Member
I want to get my aerobatic rating and was wondering if anyone knew of any good places in Oregon or northern California? Also people who have completed this rating, what aircraft did you train in? I would love to fly an exta 300 for 10 hours but probably not worth the money. I have found a school that has a 152 aerobat($70/hour) but is it even worth doing in ones of those? Any input would be great.

(This isn't about if it will help me get a jet or anything like that, so please no one get jumpy because I already know I am gonna get a jet :) )
 

puck_11

Growler LSO
pilot
There's no such thing as an aerobatic rating, but you could get your tailwheel endorsement. CFI's don't have to be checked out to teach aerobatics, so your training could vary a lot depending upon who you fly with. A Decathlon is a good airplane to learn aerobatics in, while not breaking the bank. Not sure about an aerobat, but since its only $70 give it a shot, I'm sure its limited in what it can do, learn the basics and move up from there. While an Extra is a lot of fun to fly, I would never spend that much money. It is such an easy airplane to fly that you really don't learn any stick and rudder skills flying it. Have fun, flying a taildragger and doing aerobatics is the most fun civilian flying that you can do.
 

SemperGumbi

Just a B guy.
pilot
There's no such thing as an aerobatic rating, but you could get your tailwheel endorsement. CFI's don't have to be checked out to teach aerobatics, so your training could vary a lot depending upon who you fly with. A Decathlon is a good airplane to learn aerobatics in, while not breaking the bank. Not sure about an aerobat, but since its only $70 give it a shot, I'm sure its limited in what it can do, learn the basics and move up from there. While an Extra is a lot of fun to fly, I would never spend that much money. It is such an easy airplane to fly that you really don't learn any stick and rudder skills flying it. Have fun, flying a taildragger and doing aerobatics is the most fun civilian flying that you can do.

You thought the Extra was easy to fly? I haven't flown one but I have often heard that they are real hard to keep coordinated (I imagine that would be X2 for a jet guy, as we don't really use the rudder in normal flight). Is this inaccurate?
 

nugget81

Well-Known Member
pilot
While an Extra is a lot of fun to fly, I would never spend that much money. It is such an easy airplane to fly that you really don't learn any stick and rudder skills flying it. Have fun, flying a taildragger and doing aerobatics is the most fun civilian flying that you can do.

Agreed. While I've only been up once in an Extra, it was so responsive that it made aerobatics much easier (much less finesse involved). I've flown aerobatics in a Great Lakes, Decathalon, Extra 300, and the T-34C. I enjoyed it the most in the Great Lakes (open cockpit biplane, tail dragger). That airplane was by no means easy to fly but it was tons of fun to toss around in the air. The biggest downsides to the plane were the heel brakes and complete lack of foward visibility on the ground.

The Decathalon was a close second in fun factor, but it lacks that wind in your hair feeling that the Great Lakes has. The Extra was fun, but I felt like I could have gotten myself in a lot of trouble very quickly if I pushed it too far. It climbed like a bat out of hell and had a roll rate that made me dizzy. The rudder seemed like it needed a lot of trim at the time, but after flying the T-34C, I'm not sure anything has ever needed as much rudder trim as the turboweenie did!

The T-34C....well, I didn't really enjoy the aerobatics in it. The airplane seemed too stable (with all the add-on like strakes, dorsal fin, ventral fins, etc). It was sluggish in response and seemed to demand much more finesse than the other less-stable, aerobatic planes I'd flown. The syllabus also omitted some of the best maneuvers to fly (snap-rolls, hammer heads, clover leafs, inverted spins, extended inverted flight, etc.) Some maneuvers are prohibited or limited by NATOPS, but others were apparently outside the scope of Primary aerobatics.

Like puck_11 said, find a reputable place with experienced instructors and have fun flying aerobatics!!
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
One of the sailplane clubs I belong to uses a Citabria as a tow plane. It's a fully acrobatic (Citabria backwards is airbatic) taildragger with heel brakes, and is a lot of fun to fly.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
I want to get my aerobatic rating and was wondering if anyone knew of any good places in Oregon or northern California? Also people who have completed this rating, what aircraft did you train in? I would love to fly an exta 300 for 10 hours but probably not worth the money. I have found a school that has a 152 aerobat($70/hour) but is it even worth doing in ones of those? Any input would be great.

(This isn't about if it will help me get a jet or anything like that, so please no one get jumpy because I already know I am gonna get a jet :) )

I'll ask around at work for you and let you know what I find....
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
The syllabus also omitted some of the best maneuvers to fly (snap-rolls, hammer heads, clover leafs, inverted spins, extended inverted flight, etc.) Some maneuvers are prohibited or limited by NATOPS, but others were apparently outside the scope of Primary aerobatics.

An interesting comment. W/ the exception of the clover leaf, all those maneuvers are bad juju in the T-34. Okay, the snap roll isn't, but it just doesn't have the authority to do it (like you were saying). I always thought the hammer head would be fun in the T-34, but the last few chip light issues, it doesn't seem the smartest thing to do. Apparently they were linked back to guys doing UA/PAs and the IP letting the stud go zero G for "too long." As a result, engine wear occurred and showed itself after the next flight or two.

Not meant to argue your opinion, just giving some perspective on the "why."
 

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
If you can make it up to Olympia WA, you can get dual in my Citabria for gas. AW discount...

However, if you want to go through the full unusual attitude, stall/spin cards and syllabus it'll be market rate.

I also have a Cub for tailwheel training. I personally think the Citabria is easier to learn in though.
 

puck_11

Growler LSO
pilot
You thought the Extra was easy to fly? I haven't flown one but I have often heard that they are real hard to keep coordinated (I imagine that would be X2 for a jet guy, as we don't really use the rudder in normal flight). Is this inaccurate?

I have about a hundred hours of dual given in the Decathlon and flew competition aerobatics with it. That thing was a pig to fly and flying competition style aerobatics with it was not easy. So I had some decent rudder skills and keeping things coordinated by feel rather than looking at the ball. Moving over to an Extra, is like moving from a T-34 to a T-45. The Extra flies so much smoother and is so much more responsive. In a spin, if you take the inputs out, it stops immediately. I have very limited time in it, so take it for what its worth, but I thought flying it was so much easier.
 

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
That offer have an expiration date or any fine print?

No expiration, no fine print other than you have to let me know a week or so in advance, yu must remain in good standing on AW, and I prefer Alaskan Amber. If you show up with Pabst, Coors or anything in a can you'll be shown the door soonest.

I don't anticipate on having 10 AWs' show up to fly so I think you're safe.

After May 08 would be best. I'll be in the desert until then.



Mike-
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
One of the sailplane clubs I belong to uses a Citabria as a tow plane. It's a fully acrobatic (Citabria backwards is airbatic) taildragger with heel brakes, and is a lot of fun to fly.

Does that mean I can do somersaults and handstands in it?:icon_wink

A prohibition on acrobatics used to be in the CH-46 ch.4 limits. "All right, crew, no backflips in the cabin....now, can I do a barrel roll in this thing?" They eventually changed it to no "aerobatics," which is what they meant.
 
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