• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Aii Force Selects CSAR-X Helo Winner

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
People are still shaking there heads on this one - would be interested in hearing everyone's reaction to this announcement. Especially Bobby and Stearmann...


Air Force Selects Boeing CH-47 for CSAR
In a move that stunned most observers, the U.S. Air Force has picked Boeing’s CH-47—an aircraft that dates back to the 1960s—over AgustaWestland’s
EH101 and Sikorksy’s S-92 to build its next-generation of helicopters to search and rescue aircrews shot down behind enemy lines.

A team led by Boeing’s rotorcraft division near Philadelphia won an initial, $712-million contract to build four test aircraft and the first batches
of operational HH-47 variants of the Chinook to replace the Air Force’s aging fleet of about 100 Sikorsky HH-60G Pave Hawk combat search and rescue
helicopters.

The Chinook was widely viewed as too big and noisy and of too old a design to stand a chance in the Air Force competition.

AgustaWestland was teamed with Lockheed Martin and Bell Helicopter on its bid for the Combat Search and Rescue-X (CSAR-X) program, with Lockheed
Martin as the lead. Sikorsky was teamed with another division of Boeing, among other companies.

The award is a remarkable endorsement of Boeing’s efforts over the last several years to reduce the cost of building and operating Chinooks by
redesigning key components. Those efforts persuaded the U.S. Army not only to rebuild existing Chinooks with the redesigned components but also to
order hundreds of new-build ones, the first of which made its maiden flight in Philadelphia on Oct. 23. The Air Force is piggybacking on those
cost-cutting efforts. Its order will require Boeing to expand its Philadelphia production line.

The contract covers the system design and development of the test aircraft and production of up to 141 operational ones, as well as related training
and support systems, through 2019. The program is valued at $10 billion.

Compared to the Pave Hawks, the CSAR-X aircraft are intended to increase survivability, range, payload capacity, battle space awareness, and
performance in adverse weather while decreasing mission reaction time. Program officials are seeking an initial operational capability by the first
quarter of Fiscal 2012. That capability is defined as five aircraft delivered to USAF’s formal training site and five to the first operational site,
each set with the related training and support systems.—Rotor & Wing
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Air Force Selects Boeing CH-47 for CSAR

A team led by Boeing’s rotorcraft division near Philadelphia won an initial, $712-million contract to build four test aircraft and the first batches
of operational HH-47 variants of the Chinook to replace the Air Force’s aging fleet of about 100 Sikorsky HH-60G Pave Hawk combat search and rescue helicopters.

The PaveHawks are aging? Have they seen what WE (as in HSL & to a lesser extent, HS) fly?
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
A quote from the Secretary of the Air Force:
"The Air Force is the only service with forces dedicated to the critical mission of combat search and rescue," said Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley. "We take that mission seriously, and this new CSAR platform will greatly benefit all service members who perform vital work deep in hostile, uncertain or enemy territory."

The CSAR-X is a medium-lift helicopter that will replace the Air Force's fleet of HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters, which are quickly approaching their useful service life limit.


Who in their right mind would consider a 50,000 pound helo "medium lift". Good grief!

Here's the conceptual drawing of the aircraft:


MSF06-1631-1.jpg
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I know nothing official about this whole thing, but sure does sound a bit suspicious. Pork, anyone?
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
yeah, it does raise the BS flag for me. rotor and wing seemed to have the HH-47 written off as an also ran awhile back. Sikorsky sure seems to be having problems marketing their bird.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Remember that cost was an important part of the USAF selection process. It's the reason Boeing submitted the 47 rather than the V-22 as its entrant.

Also, the new 47s are hardly even the same aircraft as their 1960s bethren, so to say it's ancient is misleading. The Army has been using 47s in similar configurations as the CSAR bird as part of TF-160 for a while, so it also has the battle-tested check in the box.
 

gregsivers

damn homeowners' associations
pilot
yeah, it does raise the BS flag for me. rotor and wing seemed to have the HH-47 written off as an also ran awhile back. Sikorsky sure seems to be having problems marketing their bird.

They can't seem to sell the 92 at all. But we have lots of posters of it around the training building at 40.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Remember that cost was an important part of the USAF selection process. It's the reason Boeing submitted the 47 rather than the V-22 as its entrant.

Also, the new 47s are hardly even the same aircraft as their 1960s bethren, so to say it's ancient is misleading. The Army has been using 47s in similar configurations as the CSAR bird as part of TF-160 for a while, so it also has the battle-tested check in the box.

My comment was based more on the size/noise factor. I agree the modern TF-160 -47 is an amazing piece of gear. From what I've been told, the ASE system installed on it is only on two other aircraft in the US inventory, and one of them is AF One. I guess if, in the end, it does the job they need, then great. As we always happens, we, the end users, always make due.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
I think it is more than a little interesting that Sikorsky cant find a military launch customer for the S-92. Its an amazing aircraft.

Re the HH-47 it would seem some of the drivers are the high altitude capabilities of the aircraft. Frank Piasecki would be proud to know the tandem is not dead!
 

aircav06

New Member
None
Obviously the Navy & USMC helo community mindset here is confined to operating at sea level. Personnel Recovery/CSAR is not confined to sea level. It's just like the Boeing ad says, "Above 16,000 FT, its all Chinook". The MH-47G and CH-47F with CAAS cockpits, improved engines and redesigned dynamic components are not your daddy's CH-47.
 

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
It is indeed true, the HH-47 is a go for the AF. The version they're getting will be a slightly modified model of the MH-47G. In fact, about a year ago one of our birds came off th Vertol line and made a detour to Nellis AFB for a month-long fly-off.

The AF will probably opt for a different model of hoist, and reconfigure the cabin for CSAR. Otherwise, supposedly the panel and ASE will remain unchanged...which was one of the selling points that an entire new test syllabus wouldn't be required. The current MH models are mostly new build, and retain the original Chinook technology is heritage only.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Stearmann - what do you think was the main selling points for the AF? Sounds like you are saying common syllabus/training (not having to reinvent the wheel), sims already in place...etc.

I would imagine the hot/high capability will be welcomed too. Will this H-47 have some sort of terrain avoidance/terrain following capability? a la Pave Low?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think it is more than a little interesting that Sikorsky cant find a military launch customer for the S-92. Its an amazing aircraft.

Re the HH-47 it would seem some of the drivers are the high altitude capabilities of the aircraft. Frank Piasecki would be proud to know the tandem is not dead!


The Canadians selected the S-92 to replace their SH-3 Sea Kings as their main ASW helo, they are buying 28.

Sikorsky_H92.jpg


http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equip/ch-148/intro_e.asp

http://www.sikorsky.com/details/0,,CLI1_DIV69_ETI2282,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_H-92_Superhawk
 
Top