Air Medal Society is formed

[bunk22]

Well, if they were E-2 NFOs then I agree with you, but there has been many a double-anchor guy who has basically saved his pilot's life and others around him. Heck, there are NFOs who have directly saved Marines on the ground, so I wouldn't use that as the reason to write off the Air Medal vending machine.

I do, however, enjoy the war stories.

Is that deserving on an air medal though? I have no doubt they have done their duty, I've known several E-2 NFO's worth their salt. However, they saved those butts but were probably not near any action or directly in harms way. Near it, maybe.........as I recall their tracks in OEF. I need to read the rules governing air medals and maybe within that (like being part of a strike package) they get them but is it truly deserving? Guys who go into harms way daily, get shot at, are......IMO, deserving.

 

[HeyJoe]

Is that deserving on an air medal though? I have no doubt they have done their duty, I've known several E-2 NFO's worth their salt. However, they saved those butts but were probably not near any action or directly in harms way. Near it, maybe.........as I recall their tracks in OEF. I need to read the rules governing air medals and maybe within that (like being part of a strike package) they get them but is it truly deserving? Guys who go into harms way daily, get shot at, are......IMO, deserving.

The way the Air Medal Strike//Flight point system was set up distinguished between those flying support (1 point) and those in harm's way (2 points). Of course, some folks gamed the system; we had USAF tanker pilots willing to take us to border of Iraq in Desert Storm because penetration, however slight, got them the 2 points. I heard (from a tanker pilot) that senior folks were sent on rides just to get them enough points. Later in Desert Storm, they were anchored in Eastern Iraq over advancing troops which was a big help keeping CAP stations on Iran-Iraq border occupied. That said, the individual Air Medals with V (Navy/Marine Corps version) were earned. The Strike/Flight medals were more of a "Been there, done that".

 

[bunk22]

The way the Air Medal Strike//Flight point system was set up distinguished between those flying support (1 point) and those in harm's way (2 points). Of course, some folks gamed the system; we had USAF tanker pilots willing to take us to border of Iraq in Desert Storm because penetration, however slight, got them the 2 points. I heard (from a tanker pilot) that senior folks were sent on rides just to get them enough points. Later in Desert Storm, they were anchored in Eastern Iraq over advancing troops which was a big help keeping CAP stations on Iran-Iraq border occupied. That said, the individual Air Medals with V (Navy/Marine Corps version) were earned. The Strike/Flight medals were more of a "Been there, done that".

An E-2 driver could answer this but I think that's how it works for them. During OEF, some of the COD guys wanted to ride along as co-pilot during one of their flights. Some E-2 types had gotten a ride or two in the COD going ashore. We were denied being all E-2 the pilots wanted to earn points for the air medals. I thought where they flew, on the border, earned them a quarter of a point. I could be way here but that's how I remember it being explained.

From an outsiders perspective, when I see a Hornet driver or a helo driver with air medals, my thought is they obviously earned that. If I see an E-2 or Herc driver (non MC or AC) I think, what did they do to earn that.

 

[MasterBates]

Also, the HS and HSL bubbas getting points & green ink varies with the air wing. We did the same exact mission, same place, same time as another CSG Det.. No green ink or AM points for Helo bubbas. Guys there on the other shotgun cruiser, got points & grren ink.

Only difference was what CAG you were with.

I personally think the GOPLAT and "River Run" flights were wothy of support points, but far less deserving than the guys flying troops around further up in country.

 

[KC130FE]

From an outsiders perspective, when I see a Hornet driver or a helo driver with air medals, my thought is they obviously earned that. If I see an E-2 or Herc driver (non MC or AC) I think, what did they do to earn that.

Flew troops and supplies into Rhino, Kandahar, and Bagram because the Helos didn't have the legs. All at night, unaided (because the NVG planes belonged to the Reserves), using self contained approaches to uncontrolled, unlit, high elevation, bomb-cratered airfields. Did you know that small arms fire, (even the tracers) doesn't show up so well without goggles? Of course this is from my insider's perspective.

 

[hscs]

This is all hashed out in the SECNAV 1650 -- 2 for direct strikes (kinetic or non-kinetic), 1 for flights, and .4 for direct support missions.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Did you know that small arms fire, (even the tracers) doesn't show up so well without goggles?

Depends on the altitude with which you're observing it. I can tell you, from an insider's perspective - and after having had to break to avoid it - it can be seen on the goggles down low. C-130 guys that were in Iraq HAD to have been "glorifying" their missions for air medal points. Case in point - saw a MISREP where they described in detail a manpad shot and having to maneuver to avoid, and then dispensing a section of Phrogs worth of flares. Then you're sitting there thinking "hmmm, I landed 5 minutes after them, and flew directly over the point where the shot supposedly came from, at the time they say they saw it. And I didn't see a thing. And they didn't maneuver."

 

[Goober]

An E-2 driver could answer this but I think that's how it works for them. During OEF, some of the COD guys wanted to ride along as co-pilot during one of their flights. Some E-2 types had gotten a ride or two in the COD going ashore. We were denied being all E-2 the pilots wanted to earn points for the air medals. I thought where they flew, on the border, earned them a quarter of a point. I could be way here but that's how I remember it being explained.

From an outsiders perspective, when I see a Hornet driver or a helo driver with air medals, my thought is they obviously earned that. If I see an E-2 or Herc driver (non MC or AC) I think, what did they do to earn that.

Yep, support points only for us; which is why you'll likely never see big numbers on our ribbons. Points aside, the operational flights (specifically in the E-2) typically require radio nets that most guys aren't cleared for, and these days they frequently involve interaction for the front seats as well as the tube.

 

[KC130FE]

C-130 guys that were in Iraq HAD to have been "glorifying" their missions for air medal points.

Could be. I didn't go to Iraq.

 

[BlkPny]

Just wondering. For us, many many years ago, it was 20 points for a Strike/Flight Air Medal. Two points if we took fire, one point if we didn't. Is it still the same?

 

[usmarinemike]

I wish the helo guys had a separate air medal that distinguishes it from that. That honest-to-god makes me sick. Homos.

I understand your outrage. I was a DASC guy on the ground and saw more action than those guys. However, many of those Marines are the smartest, most level headed Marines I know. Some had also served on the ground in OEF prior to the DASC(A) job. They didn't make the rules, they just enjoy them. I highly respect your opinion and insight on this board, but I respectfully request that you secure the name calling trash.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I respectfully request that you secure the name calling trash.

No worries. I should have put a smiley in, as a matter of fact - I don't know why I didn't. It was meant in jest, more of a ribbing of a fellow teufelhunden...

 

[Huggy Bear]

Just wondering. For us, many many years ago, it was 20 points for a Strike/Flight Air Medal. Two points if we took fire, one point if we didn't. Is it still the same?

For my airwing in Iraq and Afghanistan it was two points if you either took fire or delivered ordnance. 1 point for going in country. No points for those who didn't go in country. 20 points is still the norm.

 

[Flash]

Yep, support points only for us; which is why you'll likely never see big numbers on our ribbons. Points aside, the operational flights (specifically in the E-2) typically require radio nets that most guys aren't cleared for, and these days they frequently involve interaction for the front seats as well as the tube.

C-2 guys don't have TS SCI?

 

[MasterBates]

Hell, in HSL, only the OIC's have TS.

JOPA, Secret only.