Airline consideration/credit of Helo flight hours?

[MIDNJAC]

HEY!!! I came into the NAV planning on flyin' P-3's ... and then a whole bunch of things took place and I went jets ... and never looked back ...

But if I had gone P-3's, I would have considered it a good career -- both "in" and "out" of the game ...

A4's, maybe I am misreading, but don't you mean P-2's sir?

 

[HAL Pilot]

In my opinion, it's all about the mindset/attitude. There's obviously nothing wrong with not making a career out of the military but still taking the time to serve your country. What I see a problem with is people who use the military only as a stepping stone to something else. It comes down to being there to serve vs. being there to be served (and the vast majority of people I've come across are unquestionably there for the former).

That's my $0.01 (I'm just a dumb ensign, I don't think my opinions warrant 2 cents yet...even .01 is probably pushing it, but given how weak the dollar is right now, I'll roll with it).

Obviously the military doesn't see it your way. Hence all the commercials about going into the military for the job training that can serve you later in civilian life.

There is nothing wrong with joining for the training. You are still serving and making big sacrifices for your country. If everyone stayed in for 20 years, there would be a hell of a problem. The military is not set up for that. It needs attrition to keep promotion opportunities and career advancement.

 

[Clux4]

Flying law enforcement could be fun. CHP, Border Patrol or maybe the FBI sound like fun to me. Besides, these are departments/agencies that have the money to keep the birds up.

 

[zippy]

I was considering choosing P-3 instead of helo due to the possibility of an airline career after the Navy.

Then I pulled my head out of my ass, decided I'd rather have FUN in the Navy and if I want to do airlines after, then do what it takes later on down the line.

Bottom line: I may be a real salty-dog Ensign, but I imagine it's not very smart picking a pipeline based on what you're doing AFTER the Navy. Choose your future in the Navy based on your time IN THE NAVY, not what comes later.

Once again, for those reading- if you are looking at picking a platform solely based on getting hours for a future career in the airlines- do not pick P-3s... you will be setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.

You? pulled your head out of your ass??? First time for everything I guess. Thanks for sparing us from your presence, we have enough pain inflicted on us on a regular basis. :icon_wink

 

[FLYTPAY]

HEY!!! I came into the NAV planning on flyin' P-3's

That clears up a lot of questions us youngins' had. Zinger.

Once again, for those reading- if you are looking at picking a platform solely based on getting hours for a future career in the airlines- do not pick P-3s... you will be setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.

EA-6B or any flavor of Hornet is better for you due to ALL of your flight time being PIC.

 

[BACONATOR]

Thanks for sparing us from your presence, we have enough pain inflicted on us on a regular basis. :icon_wink

What are you talking about? I'm the BEST heat-shield! Ask people I went to OCS with...

And seriously. I was on the fence about P-3/Helo. Either is a good community. It's nothing against P-3s. I just figured I'd have a better time in helo world.

 

[Rubiks06]

For those of you in HT's now there is an instructor there that is doing the Oil Rig Gig. Hes a reserve commander and we talked about it on several flights. Hes got something like 11000 hours in a helo. Flying in the reserves teaching in the HT's and then flying to the oil rigs. He never really talked money but did mention that the flying could suck sometimes with no AC. If you are interested look him up. Probably mostly the IP types because those of us in the FNG club have a long way to go before we have to worry about any of that.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I have a bud flying something similar (Oil Rigs/Oil Tankers) out in Oregon... He loves it.. Gets lots of time off.. Pay not as good as but makes up for it in QOL... If the A/C is broke or in maint they still get paid.. And then if he works on days off, gets extra... But he gets to see his 4 kids grow up and according to him that is priceless.. He was a H-46 Guam, Whidbey H-3/C-12, Japan H-60 guy... Great dude.. Think I will give him a ring now that ya'll got me thinking about it...

 

[bobbybrock]

Flying law enforcement could be fun. CHP, Border Patrol or maybe the FBI sound like fun to me. Besides, these are departments/agencies that have the money to keep the birds up.

It can be a good gig. I have guys in my guard unit who fly for the above agencies. Custom/Border Partol is hiring like crazy. You start out as a GS12 then go to GS13 then GS14 if you go the management route. If you are a P-3 bubba you start at GS-14.
Most of the other three letter agencies require you to kick in doors for a few years before you fly. The fed always have money and there is good job security.

 

[phrogdriver]

I see the value of meeting a minimum amount of f/w time for airlines--obviously you have to know how to land one. Same for a certain amount of PIC time. However, there are no single-pilot airliners I know of. Why aren't pilots experienced in multi-crew platforms (e.g. a helo) given some sort of consideration.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I see the value of meeting a minimum amount of f/w time for airlines--obviously you have to know how to land one. Same for a certain amount of PIC time. However, there are no single-pilot airliners I know of. Why aren't pilots experienced in multi-crew platforms (e.g. a helo) given some sort of consideration.

Sole judgement rests on the only pilot. The CRM issues you think single-pilot aircraft do not have are really a non-issue as your wingman or lead is essentially your CRM partner.

 

[A4sForever]

However, there are no single-pilot airliners I know of..... Why aren't pilots experienced in multi-crew platforms (e.g. a helo) given some sort of consideration.

There's some single pilot "airlines" ... try air taxi's and charter operations, for example ... they just have to be certificated for single pilot ops -- usually 10,000# GW or less for take-off & landing, etc., etc. ... all the usual FED rules & suspects apply ... I don't keep up on 'em these days.

Multi-crew flight time IS given more "weight" to some degree -- just not HELO's as multi-crew -- there's that ol' anti-rotary bias in the jet age rearing its ugly head again.

That's why a fixed wing type rating is a good thing if you're making a run on the airlines:

1. It improves your overall "package" when presenting yourself vis-a-vi the competition for those "juicy" airline jobs.

2. It pays the bill for some carriers who would otherwise have to "pay" to get you checked out.

3. It shows you CAN operate in a multi-crew environment.

4. It shows you're a "company man".

5. If you progress far enough, you'll have to do it anyway -- Poppa FED says.

Hiring used to ebb & flow on new-hire "characteristics" depending on who sat in the Chief Pilot's office. That has kinda disappeared in the terror reign of EEOC ... but it's still "there". Just not as obvious as in the past ...

I experienced one Chief Pilot who favored civilian types for employment. He was a former light twin weenie -- what a surprise. I worked for one airline that WOULD NOT hire former USMC. The Chief Pilot was an ol' Curtis Lemay disciple -- big time -- and hated Gyrenes. I don't know why -- he just did. He "tolerated" Navy types ... he just didn't "like" the single-seat jet jocks.

It's a strange world out there .... the bottom line is you have to be able to "walk, talk, THINK, and chew gum" on the flight deck, all at the same time. It doesn't matter how many "seats" are available in the cockpit.

 

[phrogdriver]

Sole judgement rests on the only pilot. The CRM issues you think single-pilot aircraft do not have are really a non-issue as your wingman or lead is essentially your CRM partner.

I didn't say single seat aircraft don't have CRM. But, it is a different kind. I don't want to argue which is better/harder/etc, but coordinating 2 guys in a cockpit (or even 2 guys plus a cabin crew) is a much different skill set than coordinating 2 guys in a formation. No matter how good your -2 is, he can't fold your map for you. Constraining my question to major and commuter airlines, I'm guessing very few are single-seat and even fewer fly in formation. (I've never gotten a ticket that says I'm on American Airlines flight 765 dash two). So assuming that a r/w (or tiltrotor guy) has a certain minimum number of ME f/w and can show that he can land an airplane, I would think (and that's why I asked) than the skills he needs for most airline flying are better represented in multi-place aircraft.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Phrog:

The answer is it is just part of the game.... Why.. Who knows.. Better, worse... Who knows.. It really depends on that pilot.. I think A4s is on the money with training costs and some of it comes from the feds... I know we have been flying 757s on proving/FAA approval runs for the past couple of months just to finally start revenue service next month.. That can't be cheap! All the while UPS has had them in service for years... I think it comes down to beaucracy, money and politics... But that is just my guess!

BTW I have flown with horrible C-141/C-130/C-5/P-3 multi-crew pilots and some very good Harrier/Hornet/F-16 drivers and vice versa... I really think it depends A pilot's discipline and skillset...

 

[JayPull85]

I know a couple of helo guys who had no problems getting airline gigs after doing T-34 VT tours. I would defer to the actual airline pilots to say more.


What is meant by T-34VT tours?