Airline Pilots with Military Wings

[A4sForever]

I thought that you had to be in a union at a union airline (which is almost all of them, I'd guess). Is this a choice at some places? I just figured that it was inevitable. Get the job, join the union, and off you go.

If I wanted to live a life of politics and infighting.......I'd stay in the Marine Corps.

I thought that the scabs were only around during a strike, and then promptly dumped as part of terms of the eventual reconciliation between the management and the union. Do some of them get to stay on (and get abused by the members).

Naaaaaa .... you don't HAVE to join the Union, even in "closed-shop" states, but why not?? You're gonna have to pay dues anyway, in most states ... so you might as well come onboard and get the "bennies" that your dues money is going toward. ESPECIALLY NOW w/ a Democrat in the White House ...

If you don't want to be an active Union-guy ... don't. BUT: remember, if you fly for a "real" airline, your salary is probably what it is as a direct result of the sacrifices of ALPA guys who came before you ...

SCABs are not only "new" guys who cross a picket line ... they are frequently (usually in the airlines ??) guys who you've sat next to and flown w/ in the past ... but who now put their OWN well-being ahead of the rest of the Brotherhood when the shit hits the fan ...

So when the strike is over ... they stay on as regular pilot employees ... but their life, as they "know it", is over for all intents & purposes.

HEY!! We're NOT the fuckin' Teamsters ... we're professionals. BUT: we do not tolerate those w/ NO HONOR in our midst ... would YOU do anything less in the Corps ... ???

 

[Catmando]

Naaaaaa .... you don't HAVE to join the Union, even in "closed-shop" states, but why not?? You're gonna have to pay dues anyway, in most states ... so you might as well come onboard and get the "bennies" that your dues money is going toward. ESPECIALLY NOW w/ a Democrat in the White House ...

If you don't want to be an active Union-guy ... don't. BUT: remember, if you fly for a "real" airline, your salary is probably what it is as a direct result of the sacrifices of ALPA guys who came before you ...

SCABs are not only "new" guys who cross a picket line ... they are frequently (usually in the airlines ??) guys who you've sat next to and flown w/ in the past ... but who now put their OWN well-being ahead of the rest of the Brotherhood when the shit hits the fan ...

So when the strike is over ... they stay on as regular pilot employees ... but their life, as they "know it", is over for all intents & purposes.

HEY!! We're NOT the fuckin' Teamsters ... we're professionals. BUT: we do not tolerate those w/ NO HONOR in our midst ... would YOU do anything less in the Corps ... ???

+1 - What A4s said!!!

 

[Single Seat]

No one, except for the occasional fool, wears his/her "military" wings instead of the airline wings ...

I imagine anyone that did would not only alienate themselves, but really need to let go and move on.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Naaaaaa .... you don't HAVE to join the Union, even in "closed-shop" states, but why not?? You're gonna have to pay dues anyway, in most states ... so you might as well come onboard and get the "bennies" that your dues money is going toward. ESPECIALLY NOW w/ a Democrat in the White House ...

If you don't want to be an active Union-guy ... don't. BUT: remember, if you fly for a "real" airline, your salary is probably what it is as a direct result of the sacrifices of ALPA guys who came before you ...

SCABs are not only "new" guys who cross a picket line ... they are frequently (usually in the airlines ??) guys who you've sat next to and flown w/ in the past ... but who now put their OWN well-being ahead of the rest of the Brotherhood when the shit hits the fan ...

So when the strike is over ... they stay on as regular pilot employees ... but their life, as they "know it", is over for all intents & purposes.

HEY!! We're NOT the fuckin' Teamsters ... we're professionals. BUT: we do not tolerate those w/ NO HONOR in our midst ... would YOU do anything less in the Corps ... ???

That makes sense. I didn't know any of that, honestly. If you have to pay dues anyway, and it's not like the teamsters, then why would somebody not join? Sounds like piss poor headwork. I guess I had a bad stereotype of unions in my mind.

"We" don't tolerate buddy-fuckers in the Corps..........but the Corps sometimes does.

I guess I may become a newbie all over again in a few years. We'll see.

My knowledges have increased a little. Long way to go.

 

[stalk]

+1 - What A4s said!!!

I'll second that! Nicely stated.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

How well liked is ALPA?? Semi-controllable palatable dictator better than outright money hungry pilot-eating tyranasauras rex company? How bad would it be without the union, horror stories both ways? Just hate to see ALPA go down the communistic entitlementish UAW road, I'd like to haul butts or boxes one day and not feel like a member of the "collective". Like A-4's said, this doesn't seem to be the south side Chicago meat packing industry in 1890...

 

[helmet91]

Also, the DHS wings are out-of-date...sorta. The current head of CBP Air-Marine Ops is a former AF one-star and changed the wings design to something more Air Forcey.

However comma the P-3 bubbas in Corpus, being former Navy, were almost all still wearing the "Navy-style" wings. Go figure.

My dad went to USAFA with him...

Are you A&M? You guys need to get a uniform other than your bag to wear - I was at HQ this summer, OFO and BP must wear Class 2 uni's, A&M are walking around in flight suits or BDU's. WTF? :icon_wink

 

[FrankTheTank]

How well liked is ALPA??

That is a tough question to answer, right now, in this economy, with the current circumstances... However, they serve their purpose.. Play to pay kind of thing.. At least Union Dues are tax deductable...

To answer the question... They work.. Fit the bill/need... Most of the time the do trivial things with the company.. But they do have a great resource of ammo. (ie.. Say you bust an alt [should never happen but can at 3 am] they are there full force to keep your job..etc)

 

[Uncle Fester]

My dad went to USAFA with him...

Are you A&M? You guys need to get a uniform other than your bag to wear - I was at HQ this summer, OFO and BP must wear Class 2 uni's, A&M are walking around in flight suits or BDU's. WTF? :icon_wink

In the process of interviews to be a DEO with the P-3s.

Why the hell would you wear something besides bags if you had any excuse not to? Most of the guys around the shop either wore their bags or the BDU trousers with a monogrammed polo shirt.

Beats Blue Digis, anyway.

 

[helmet91]

In the process of interviews to be a DEO with the P-3s.

Awesome, good luck!

Why the hell would you wear something besides bags if you had any excuse not to? Most of the guys around the shop either wore their bags or the BDU trousers with a monogrammed polo shirt.

Beats Blue Digis, anyway.

I guess when there's only one actual uniform it's probably a good reason! It just sucks because we poor saps of the OFO and BP have to wear damn class 2's at HQ. We have BDU's and coveralls too!

Oh well, I'll be out of the uniform and in civies drinking good German beer soon enough!

 

[picklesuit]

So I have spent the majority of my life opposed to unions...specifically AFL-CIO/AFSCME/and the goddamn worthless teachers unions. Any organization that puts time in the job ahead of performance just pisses me off. Don't advance non-performers. What sets the pilots union aside? I assume the biggest positive is that most (all?) pilots are college educated individuals that understand the company is there to make money, not provide them with a paycheck...that is why they took the paycuts to keep the airline's afloat in the past...but what makes an airline union any different from the others?

 

[A4sForever]

So I have spent the majority of my life opposed to unions.......What sets the pilots union aside? I assume the biggest positive is that most (all?) pilots are college educated individuals that understand the company is there to make money, not provide them with a paycheck...that is why they took the paycuts to keep the airline's afloat in the past...but what makes an airline union any different from the others?

I was raised in an anti-union household. For balance, several members of my extended family are staunch unionists.

To your basic question: what sets ALPA or any of the other pilots' unions aside from "the others", you ask ... ???

One simple fact:

ALPA and other pilots' unions are populated by guys who -- on any given day and sometimes EVERY day -- have been entrusted with the ultimate responsibility for the lives of YOU and your loved ones ... it's populated by guys who would put their own lives on the line to ensure that you and yours get from point "A" to "B" safely .... and in good cheer as a bonus .... and that's every day, any weather, and any time, baby ...

That's what makes us different.

 

[CWJones411]

As a former member of the "
United Food and Commercial Workers"

..my experience with unions has been more akin to piracy. As in, they took half my money. Until experience proves otherwise, I don't trust unions.

 

[HAL Pilot]

ALPA is not a trade union in the historical sense or a union hiring-hall type organization. The ALPA unit at each individual airline negotiates and administers it's own contract under ALPA national guidelines. ALPA national provides the experts (lawyers, accountants, etc.) to help each individual airline unit in the process. ALPA National also plays a very important role in setting safety standards, accident investigations, medical (FAA) assistance to members, etc.

I too grew up "anti-union". I quickly learned that without a pilot's union, airline management would rape and pillage at will. It is only the union contract and the ability of the union to speak as a single voice that protects a pilot's QOL, working conditions and pay. Airline management showed their true colors to all pilots in the years since 9/11/2001. Pilot's need a union.

Yes Picklesuit, we took pay cuts in the past but even as everyone is recovering, management is demanding more pay cuts while they take raises and bonuses. It is the union that is keeping this from happening. In my airline's case, we are one of the best off financially and are making a good profit. Yet management is insisting that we take more cuts below the level we are currently at which was forced on us by bankruptcy 4 years ago. Our CEO got a yearly bonus that was bigger than the contract increases we are asking for.

Airline pilot and employee pay and benefit cuts have been subsidizing the passenger tickets prices for years. Passengers need to pay the true cost of their travel. If management had their way, employees would take more pay cuts and pax would pay even less. These same educated pilots who "saved" their airlines are now becoming more united behind their unions to stop this insanity and return our pay and benefits to an appropriate level.

If you want to fly for a major airline with a decent wage and QOL after you get out of the Navy, you need to hope that not only do ALPA and the other pilot unions prevail, you need to hope they grow stronger.

 

[a-6intruder]

So at her airline guys had a choice to be union or not?

Yes and no. Guys who crossed the picket line were never allowed back or allowed to join in the first place. This was before her time, but the feelings ran pretty deep. When she was hired, you could elect not to join the union, but the dues were still taken out of your pay, because agruably, the union would stick up for any pilot, regardless of whether they were a union member or not. But essentially it was not worth the hassle to be perceived as a non union person.