An Air Force Question

[mts4602]

Ok, my cousin wants to join the Air National Guard. I know.

He is currently in flight training at a college while also majoring in History. He's going to be a senior but still has a few years left because a lot of his first classes he took as a freshman didn't count for anything. He had to take them to get into other classes. Plus he changed majors. But anyways, he tells me his plan is to join the ANG after college and work as a flight instructor to get hours to join an airline. He seems to think getting selected straight from being a civilian to the ANG as a pilot "isn't that hard". He's crazy right? I mean the AF is kicking people out as it is with the whole force shaping thing. It's hard enough getting selected to AF OCS. I'd think Guard selection would be few and far between. Plus his GPA I believe is below a 3.0.

Am I right in thinking he doesn't stand a chance?

I tell him he needs to just try for Navy OCS. From what others have said on this board, it seems he might just have a chance if he kicks ass the next couple years and gets his GPA up as high as possible. Plus there are numerous other parts of the application he can make look great.

What do you guys think?

 

[Single Seat]

It's not that hard, depending on what community he wants to get into. Tankers, Heavy Lift, he just needs to find a unit to pick him up. Fighters/pointy nose is much harder. Much deeper pool of applicants.

ANG is a great way to go. BTW the AF and ANG are not the same thing. Gpa is also not the only part of an application. i.e. Whole person concept? Sounds like he knows what he wants, and how to get it.

 

[BackOrdered]

I talk to and counsel people trying to enter officer programs here and there. No matter what, I try to encourage them, but make them aware of the reality of what it is they are doing (which doesn't have to be doom and gloom), nothing more. It is not our place to tell them they can't if they are willing to try in the face of reality and difficulty. If he still wants to try, good! That is an admirable character trait.

 

[mts4602]

It's not that hard, depending on what community he wants to get into. Tankers, Heavy Lift, he just needs to find a unit to pick him up. Fighters/pointy nose is much harder. Much deeper pool of applicants.

ANG is a great way to go. BTW the AF and ANG are not the same thing. Gpa is also not the only part of an application. i.e. Whole person concept? Sounds like he knows what he wants, and how to get it.

Wow, I did not know that. That's good to hear. And yeah, there is a lot more he can do to improve his chances.

 

[Single Seat]

http://www.baseops.net/newjob.html

 

[whitesoxnation]

So how does the ANG work?

You apply to the specific unit you want to fly for?

 

[Single Seat]

So how does the ANG work?

You apply to the specific unit you want to fly for?

Exactomundo

 

[Swanee]

Not only am I applying for Navy OCS, I am also "pledging" a few ANG units (a few A-10 and a couple F-16). It is important to know that each Guard Fighter Squadron (A-10, F-15, F-16) sends 1 or 2 people to UPT every year, with the heavy units usually getting more as heavy units tend to fly more than fighter units. It is also important to know that the Guard Bureau acts differently and in many ways independently of the Air Force. This is both good and bad. You won't see force shaping too much in the Guard, but there are very few "Full Time" pilot slots, and if you aren't a weapons school grad or candidate your chances of getting those slots are slim. As you can guess a lot of those guys want those full time AGR (Active Guard Reserve) or ART (Air Reserve Technician) jobs. My old man was ART and AGR for 27 years with the NY ANG out of Syracuse, he also went to FWS in the A-10. Those jobs are hard to come by, and a lot of them are support staff. He was an Air to Ground range Det commander (the FOL at Fort Drum, driving 2 hours each way from Syracuse to get there). Other jobs include stuff like Ops Director, there are a bunch at the Guard Readiness center and at ACC, but those are Stan/Eval or Weapons and Tactics jobs and again, if you aren't a patch wearer you really don't have a job there.

The process of applying to a Guard Unit is much more involved and is much more about the "whole person" concept than the other services. These guys are looking for someone who will be with the unit for 20+ years and will want to hang out with at every Drill Weekend and what not. They are also looking for guys who they will be deploying with. As part of a guard unit and the way the rotations work, you will see Iraq at some point. Most fighter units are on their 3rd or 4th rotation at this point since the first gulf war. (they are working that your unit sends people and assets for 90 days every 18 months. usually these are split up from 2 or 3 units so it's more like 30-45 days every 18 months, but you will go.)
Every unit is looking for something different. One unit I am pledging won't give me an interview until I have 150 powered flight hours (they don't take glider time) whereas others see my glider hours and tell me I have an interview. I also do things like get the POC for the UPT boards and ask to come check out the unit during a drill weekend, and you go sit on the couch and meet everyone. Bring booze and be polite, they will probably invite you along in all the stuff that they do, after all, you are a "pledge" and they are feeling you out. It's also nice in the fact that you are able to feel them out as well, you may find that you just don't fit into the unit. After all, the last thing you want to do is spend 20+ years attached to a unit that is populated with a bunch of guys and gals that you don't like.

Stuff like GPA and clubs and sports still carry weight, and you want to shine as much as possible on paper, but there is more face time involved with the guard. I would advise your brother to go visit units and start the process so they know who he is and what he wants. If you have a relative connected to the unit even better. (Guard units tend to be populated with a lot of father/son, siblings, uncles, nephews...) Get some more flight hours and did I mention get over to the units? The guard is a great selection and is one of the few ways to guarantee the airframe that you will be flying. If an F-16 unit sends you to UPT, you will fly the F-16 (unless you washout). It's nice that way, but as it was said before, the Fighter Squadrons usually get 80-100 apps for 1 or 2 slots. They usually select 8-10 for interviews, and select their primary, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd alternate. If they get more money to send another guy to UPT, the next in line goes. However, I am pretty sure that very few people who don't "pledge" get an interview.

Hope this helps.

 

[Single Seat]

Lots of words

Great post. The Guard/Reserve route is a great example of who you know, not what you know.

One other thing, that fighter unit you're in today, could be a heavy lift tomorrow. However if he dosen't care, then no worries. Example: St. Louiey's F-15 unit is now going B-2's.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The Air Guard is the best kept secret in the military. Little of the regular USAF bullshit. For the most part you can fly as much or as little as you want. Need some extra money? Go fly. Want time off? Don;t go fly. I know more than a few furloughed airline guys that have been "Guard bumming" for the last few years. They're flying 14-15 days a month and making more than they did on active duty. Plus most are doing nothing but fly.

Each Air Guard unit decides who they are going to send to pilot training. They can get waivers for anything if they want you. Some like to send guys from within the unit and some take outsiders. It's best to contact each Guard unit to find out how they do business.

Don't confuse the Air Guard with the Air Force Reserve either. The Air Force Reserve is much more strict and Air Force-like. I know one guy that transfered to a Reserve unit in his town so he wouldn't have to commute to his old Guard unit a couple of states away. He's regretted it ever since and is trying to get back to the Guard.

 

[whitesoxnation]

Do you have to go to OCS or anything, or do they just send you right to UPT?

 

[mts4602]

Well I talked to several people on Baseops.net as well as a friend of mine who is in our local guard unit. They all say that unless someone enlists first in the guard and serves a few years in the local unit getting to know the pilots and doing well in their job, it's a pretty slim chance they will get a slot. And as others have said on here...they like to pick from within, since they're going to be spending a lot of time with them.

 

[Single Seat]

Well I talked to several people on Baseops.net as well as a friend of mine who is in our local guard unit. They all say that unless someone enlists first in the guard and serves a few years in the local unit getting to know the pilots and doing well in their job, it's a pretty slim chance they will get a slot. And as others have said on here...they like to pick from within, since they're going to be spending a lot of time with them.

Bad gouge. Everyone I know flying for guard units (F-16, F-15, C-130, KC135, C-17) got hired right out of college.

 

[xmid]

he also went to FWS in the A-10

Why do they call it "Fighter" Weapons School when technically the A-10 is not a fighter? What have been your experiences with the guard units? Have they been fairly open to you even though you aren't enlisted in the guard?

And to Sox, they go to AMS for 6 weeks.

 

[TheGreatWaldo]

It all depends on what unit you want to join. For example, I have a friend who almost joined some unit in WV flying C-5s a little while back. He said that they were actively looking for people to send to UPT. On the other hand, as was said before, getting a slot with a fighter unit is difficult, especially if you don't come from "in house" or don't have previous flight time in that type of aircraft.

He'll probably have a better shot flying C-130s or some sort of Heavy.