An Air Force Question

[Swanee]

Why do they call it "Fighter" Weapons School when technically the A-10 is not a fighter? What have been your experiences with the guard units? Have they been fairly open to you even though you aren't enlisted in the guard?

And to Sox, they go to AMS for 6 weeks.

It's now just Weapons School, not Fighter Weapons School (though a lot of new fighter grads wear legacy patches from other guys in the unit). They have courses for Intel now as well as BUFFs, Bones, B-2s,and Stinkbugs, and the fighter types (Hawg, Viper, Eagle, Mudhen...)

A-10 is still considered a fighter attack airplane. They are in Fighter Squadrons because flying an A-10 is much more like flying a fighter than flying a heavy. They have limited air to air capability, pretty much 100% defensive BFM stuff. In fact, during Gulf 1 two A-10s from the New Orleans unit had a2a guns kills before the 1FW f-15s had any. (They were helo kills) A-10 drivers are still considered Fighter Pilots.

The guard units I'm pledging are very receptive to me, and I really haven't seen anyone who hasn't been so. All of the "Guard Babies" were in your shoes, and they understand how much you are laying out there for your career and your desires. It takes balls to walk into the lions den as a cub and say "I want to be a lion like you guys." Honestly, it's much more intimidating than walking into a recruiters office and filling out forms and taking an exam. And that is the big secret with the Guard. Are you serious enough to visit or are you just pipe dreaming and watched a bit too much Top Gun? Sometimes that may mean flying 1/2way across the country on your own dime to submit your packet and meet the guys.

There are a couple of units that will tell you up front that they only take guys from within the unit, or that they only take active duty guys (The VA ANG unit only takes Active Duty eagle or viper drivers as they now fly the F-22 with the 1st FW here at Langley). Some units have residency requirements for their off the street candidates (The Albuquerque Viper unit requires NM residency to apply). I have an "in" with the NY unit, but that doesn't mean they will send me to UPT. For a while the NY unit was sending their crew chiefs with degrees to UPT, but they are sending off the street guys too. So yeah, they are receptive.
It wasn't until I started to call units and say that I wanted to visit before I realized how few people actually set up visits and follow through. A lot of the units take guys from within simply because no one else comes to visit and hang out. They know the enlisted guys, they don't know you. A lot of the stuff that I have found guys ask you about is your "real job" or real career desire.

Most units would rather take a guy who already lives close as opposed to someone who lives across the country, but don't let that stop you; if you are interested in a unit call them up and fly out there for a drill weekend if you can. Look good on paper and look good in person.
If you want more info, shoot me a PM and I will answer every question to the best of my ability. If there is need and enough people want it I will make a big thread post about my experiences so far with the application process. I'm not a select yet, but I have a couple interviews for ANG units and am doing the Navy process now.

 

[xmid]

I wasn't trying to rag on the A-10 or anything I was just curious why the "F". Seems like the title "Top Gun" might be even more appropriate... Since you have family experience with the guard, theres a couple questions I've had that you might be able to answer...

For one, at what point do guard pilots go looking for their "other" job? I mean do you get back from the RAG or whatever the air force calls it and have a period of time with the unit where you are still somewhat busy/full time? Everyone always says you can fly as much as you want, but what does that entail? Do you just decide you want to fly Tuesday night and call up to schedule a flight or what? Also, when guys talk about "guard bumming" where guys are going pretty much full time, what exactly does that mean? I read about a guy hitting 5,000 hours in the viper while deployed with another unit and I was guessing he did that through some sort of "guard bumming."
Thanks for the insight!

 

[Swanee]

For one, at what point do guard pilots go looking for their "other" job? I mean do you get back from the RAG or whatever the air force calls it and have a period of time with the unit where you are still somewhat busy/full time? Everyone always says you can fly as much as you want, but what does that entail? Do you just decide you want to fly Tuesday night and call up to schedule a flight or what? Also, when guys talk about "guard bumming" where guys are going pretty much full time, what exactly does that mean? I read about a guy hitting 5,000 hours in the viper while deployed with another unit and I was guessing he did that through some sort of "guard bumming."
Thanks for the insight!

Usually you will spend about a year to 18 months full time in your unit after the RTU (Replacement Training Unit, the AF version of the RAG). This time is spent getting all of your mission quals and getting better. Once that is up you get a real job. Some guys who come from ROTC directly to the Guard will do their entire active duty commitment with the unit full time and then start to part-time it.

If you want to fly every Tuesday and the schedule is open, then yes you can do that. Generally you have to get 6 sorties a month, but a lot of guys who live close to the unit will fly 3 or 4 times a week. It really depends upon the flexibility of your real job. Guard Bums are like sailing bums or ski bums, they have another part time job that offers them a lot of flexibility in their schedule (a lot of these guys are airline pilots) so they can fly as much as they way (which is all the time). They also go on all the dets and deployments and what not. Getting 5k hours in the viper is a lot, but there are plenty of guys in the guard with 3k or more. A lot of that comes from the fact that if you get one of those coveted AGR slots and it's a staff job at the Guard Bureau or ACC or the Pentagon you still have the ability to come back to your unit and at least get your minimum sorties in every month. That combined with the fact that you may stay in the Guard for a while past 20 years means you can really rack up hours that the AD guys just don't get an opportunity to do. My old man was at it for 27 years and pretty much every month he was back up at Syracuse flying and still participating in dets and deployments while he was doing staff tours. That is a lot of hours when you add them up.

 

[guim13]

It is very hard to get into. I have interviewed 7 times, and will be going to NC monday for another. Heavies are not easy to get by any means. All my interviews have been with c-130 squadrons. The key if you do not have a connection in the squadron is finding a board where there are no guys in the unit going for it, and you are the best civi option. I have noticed that alot of civi guys are flight instructors with 400+ hours. If you live in a shitty state you have a advantage, cause they dont like guys from out of the general area. Good luck to all, im applying to the Navy for the second time in July. Rushing is cool, but you may waste your time. It was the best keep secret as of a few years ago, now times are tough and units are just not hiring that many people, if any at all.

 

[Mango]

"The Air Guard is the best kept secret in the military. Little of the regular USAF bullshit. For the most part you can fly as much or as little as you want. Need some extra money? Go fly. Want time off? Don;t go fly." Totally agree, HAL.

Just to put a plug in for my team, the Army Guard is the same way. It's not the Army...it's the Guard.