My thoughts exactly. Why blow all this money on something that can be done with a superhornet or a strike eagle not to mention the F-35 which costs 1/4 what the F22 does. I'm pretty sure that the F-35 is a more than capable aircraft, but then again the Air Force does have a drastic need for supercruise!!
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Another "praise the Raptor" article
- Thread starter Lonestar155
- Start date
My thoughts exactly. Why blow all this money on something that can be done with a superhornet or a strike eagle not to mention the F-35 which costs 1/4 what the F22 does. I'm pretty sure that the F-35 is a more than capable aircraft, but then again the Air Force does have a drastic need for supercruise!!
Hubble
Member
The F-22 argument is an interesting one. Do you need the F-22 to fight a counterinsurgency? Nope, not at all. But that's kinda like saying you don't need seatbelts or airbags in your car, since all you ever do is bump into somebody when you're parallel parking. Open up a aviation mag sometimes - the ones with words in them, not just pretty pictures - and have a look at what Russia and China are up to. Or go look at patent applications from other countries. Or research papers. Or... Or... Or...
I've got a fair bit of experience with both F-22 and F-35. And while a Leatherman / Swiss Army knife is great to have around (F-35), some days you need a scaple.
I've got a fair bit of experience with both F-22 and F-35. And while a Leatherman / Swiss Army knife is great to have around (F-35), some days you need a scaple.
30 hours of maint / flight hour isn't that bad IMO. When I retired a few years ago Prowlers were in the 50/hour range. I have no idea what Hornet runs today and I would hope less since on the Prowler you had to account for cannibalization time and the time to put the part back on the right jet.
The Raptor is still a new jet so I would expect that the troubleshooting time is still high as well. Nor does a "malfunction" every 1.7 hours of flight time mean much. If you count that by the MAF's written in a particular flight how often do any of us come back and not gripe something?
The Raptor is still a new jet so I would expect that the troubleshooting time is still high as well. Nor does a "malfunction" every 1.7 hours of flight time mean much. If you count that by the MAF's written in a particular flight how often do any of us come back and not gripe something?
Seatbelts and airbags don't quite work in your attempt at an analogy, but if you substitute ICBMs or Trident Subs, you make the point. If you want to use the seatbelt/airbags, they correlate to why put ejection seats in aircraft. Unfortunately, all get used from time to time despite everyone's desite not to go there.
Or listen to your Intel officer.....
There will be plenty of scenarios in which even the Leatherman F-35 isn't appropriate, but it's a good point. The main issue for SECDEF, USAF and Congress and, indirectly, the COCOMs is how many scalpels (you must be an engineer hooked by phonics) you need, not whether you need them as well as whether a mini-Leatherman (ie Turboprop light strike) is needed for today's fight.
If you think this, then you really don't have a good grasp of what the capabilities are of all those aircraft you just mentioned.
The F-22 has a lot more capability than supercruise...
The threat is out there, it's just a matter of what we want to spend our money on now. Is the present more important than the future? Maybe. We will know in the years to come.
I realize it's obviously a more capable jet with advancements and capabilities that Hornets and Eagles don't have, but I think the obvious question here is do we need those capabilities bad enough to spend 200 million per plane on it and buy 300 of them? I just don't see how it can be that good. I think it goes without saying that 200 million dollar jets with stealth/supercruise/ridiculous air to air radar aren't going to win us the war on terrorism. Although I do agree that it is time to start looking for a suitable replacement to the Eagles for their eventual retirement and the future concerns.
I dont have a dog in this fight, as far as having an opinion on the F-22....
That being said I'll bet that the USAF is looking for more than just a GWOT winner.
That replacement is the F-22. They started looking more than 20 years ago. Do you really know much of anything about this topic?! :banghead_
FYI The F-15 (the light gray version) really doesn't fight the war on terror either...
Whats funny is of all the Reagan Era born super weapons of the Cold War the Raptor is actually one of few that survived.
Seawolf SSN's - Production Caped at 3
Crusader Mobile Gun System - Cancelled
Commanche - Axed after 46 billion dollars and 3 prototypes that couldnt demonstrate anything other than flying sideways at 100 knots.
The list goes on and on when you start looking at it that way. Really the Air Force should be happy the F-22 survived at all when you look at the reasoning behind some of the systems that didnt. It all comes down to currant relavence. Crusader is a great example as it was killed because you cant justify the cost of the system when we really dont use artillery outside of a large force on force fight. Yeah I see all the cool wizzbang stuff with the new gun systems being able to drop 4-6 rounds in the same area simultaneously and thats awesome but again how often are you gonna use that tool and how much will it cost you to get it.
Will we want the thing if we ever finally play that ball game with China or Russia, sure we will. But its really hard for me to justify giving all that money for a new fighter to the same toolbags who I keep running into when I go to Panama City that tell me all they do on deployment is make sure they cross into Iraqi Air Space at least once a month so they make sure their pay is tax free. It should be noted though that spending that money on a New MRAP isnt the solution either.
Seawolf SSN's - Production Caped at 3
Crusader Mobile Gun System - Cancelled
Commanche - Axed after 46 billion dollars and 3 prototypes that couldnt demonstrate anything other than flying sideways at 100 knots.
The list goes on and on when you start looking at it that way. Really the Air Force should be happy the F-22 survived at all when you look at the reasoning behind some of the systems that didnt. It all comes down to currant relavence. Crusader is a great example as it was killed because you cant justify the cost of the system when we really dont use artillery outside of a large force on force fight. Yeah I see all the cool wizzbang stuff with the new gun systems being able to drop 4-6 rounds in the same area simultaneously and thats awesome but again how often are you gonna use that tool and how much will it cost you to get it.
Will we want the thing if we ever finally play that ball game with China or Russia, sure we will. But its really hard for me to justify giving all that money for a new fighter to the same toolbags who I keep running into when I go to Panama City that tell me all they do on deployment is make sure they cross into Iraqi Air Space at least once a month so they make sure their pay is tax free. It should be noted though that spending that money on a New MRAP isnt the solution either.
I agree with the Lawman.
But one thing that I have learned is that many people take for granted that we own the skies. During our Tactical Discussion Groups when asked what the instructors would do in this situation many if not most reply," I'd call in CAS and be done with it." I'd feel much more comfortable knowing that we do have something in our bag of tricks to make it that way 20,30,50+ years down the road.
I fear the day when our grunts can't get air support because the bad guys control the air.
But one thing that I have learned is that many people take for granted that we own the skies. During our Tactical Discussion Groups when asked what the instructors would do in this situation many if not most reply," I'd call in CAS and be done with it." I'd feel much more comfortable knowing that we do have something in our bag of tricks to make it that way 20,30,50+ years down the road.
I fear the day when our grunts can't get air support because the bad guys control the air.