Any LASIK info out there?

[Dokeman]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum but you have some great info posted here. I was wondering about LASIK surgery. I know that BUMED/NAMI is not currently giving any waivers for LASIK for aviation warfare, only for PRK. Has anyone heard if this is likely to change anytime soon or if they are starting any studies involving LASIK for air warfare? Any "gouge" out there would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[snizo]

From what I understand, they are not considering this because they are unsure of the effects of high-g maneuvers or rapid/extreme pressure changes on the eye after LASIK. PRK reshapes part of the eye using lasers, but LASIK actually cuts a flap open. We wouldn't want people up there flying if there was a change the flap could reopen and blind them! This could just be a rumor, though.

 

[Thisguy]

snizo's right. The navy is ultra-conservative about it's procedures. However, I've heard that although the Navy doesn't offer the LASIK procedure, it has a test group going. The reason LASIK is the preferred method in the civilian world is because the recovery time is amazing. You can drive the day after the procedure. With PRK, they put this protective contact in your eye, you've got a bunch of meds to take, and it takes longer for your vision to come in.

 

[rjtnavy]

I got offered SNA and pro rec for it via OCS. However, I tested 20/70 uncorrected, but 20/20 corrected at MEPS. Will I get a waiver for 20/70 to be pilot and have surgery once in the Navy???????????????????????? I am waiting for an OCS date this summer. Thanks so much if anyone can provide a professional response.

Rus

 

[CryptoMarine]

I was actually told by my recruiter that LASIK was the only accepted refractive surgery. Unfortunately, after I had the surgery someone on this websight was informed enough to get me this websight http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/Text/NAMI/WaiverGuideTopics/ophthalmology.htm
It says that LASIK isn't accepted at all. There is a mention about a study or plans to have a study on LASIK, but I wouldnt hold my breath. I think as long as they are getting enough applicants with PRK or LASEK they wont be setting new guidlines soon.
Even though I found this websight, Im still getting the run-around from the recruiter, who I believe is getting the run around from flight surgeon at CNRC (Navy Recruiting Command). Apparently this surgeon "didn't see any difference between Lasek and Lasik." I think this officially puts that flight surgeon in the catagory of "compleatly unqualified to make a judgment on the issue"
IF you havnt had the surgery yet, get LASEK, its the best thing out there and its accepted. If you've already had the surgery, look into another field. If you just want to fly for the military, I think your only option at this point is the army aviation program, they do accept LASIK.
Good luck. Do your research before you make a decision. Make sure you see it in black and white.

 

[Dokeman]

Thanks for the gouge. The recruiters told me basically the same thing, they may start a LASIK study sometime in the future but don't hold your breath. I already had the LASIK procedure about 3 years ago, no complications and seeing @ 20/15 right now. When I had it done I wasn't thinking about pursuing SNA or SNFO slots at the time. Oh well, hindsight's 20/20 right (no pun intended). The Army's an option but I don't think I could stomach going over to that branch (6 years as a grunt in the USMCR). I think for now I'll just keep my ear to the ground in case anything changes. I'm planning on taking some flight lessons to get my PPL as well so maybe that will boost my stock if they ever start a LASIK study, that is before I hit the age limit. I've got a good job now anyway. Good luck to anyone pursuing it and I totally agree with Crypto, get it in writing BEFORE you go under the blade. Semper Fi!!

P.S. Hey ThisGuy20, your Avatar looks like a Nittany Lion to me. I've got two words for you - GO BLUE!!

 

[andrew]

Hey-
Yall have all heard most of this but I thought I would still post something. I was selected SNA almost 3 years ago with LASIK. I had not revealed the procedure to MEPS. Luckily, before I signed the LINE I found out they were going to find out. I told the Navy and was DQd I even went through the waiver process for LASIK which the NAVY reviewed and sent back DQ'd. Long story short I have been in contact with the people in charge of the refractive eye surgery program and they say it will be a couple of years before NAVY/MARINES/CG/AIRF accept LASIK. But keep in mind that there are F-18 pilots as we speak which have had the LASIK done by the Navy and are still flying. Its a bunch of Bullshi... that a high G maneuver is going to rip the flap open or an ejection will. Hell if you have to eject I believe this will be the least of your worries. Anyhow, it all comes down to this procedure has not been tested and approved by the Navy which I respect. But the military tends to take a long time to accept any knew proc. Hell it was only 4-5 years ago that they started accepting large amounts of people without 20/20 so everyone should feel lucky. I just went through the process of having the ARMY waiver my LASIK which took about 2 months. I know all you Navy/Marine guys dont want to even hear about the Army but hell its my only choice to fly in the military and I cant wait to do it and will be proud to fly for the ARMY. If anybody has any questions feel free to ask. I did spend about 2 years fighting to get LASIK approved by the NAVY. I did everything short of knocking on the WhiteHouse door.
"kick the tires and light the fires".

 

[Dokeman]

Good luck with it andrew. I agree that the fear is probably just b/s but then again what would the military be without rules and regulations......probably something like a college frat. I think for now I'll play the waiting game for a while and see what happens, I've already done my 6 so flying would just be gravy for me right now. BTW - the Army just has helos right...Apache, etc?

 

[CryptoMarine]

After I found out that I had the wrong surgery I applied to the army program. I havnt given up on the Navy program. Im thinking about starting a new technical degree and going into the BDCP. That will give the navy three years to make up thier mind about LASIK, if they dont take it, then I'll just go into a different field.
I will fly, even if it is only as a civilian. Right now Im just trying to decide which life-path is better. I am also trying to find out who it was that told me to get LASIK when it specifically disqualifies people from aviation. It would be a shame for another qualified candidate to be excluded just because someone isnt doing their job right.
One more interesting note about the army program; It seems to me that army recruiter that is working my case tried to torpedo my application and get me to enlist instead. He tried for 2 hours to convince me to go in the army as an E-3 working in artillery. When I told him that I wouldn't consider any enlisted position at all, he got real pissy with me. He actually told me I had to go enlisted because I couldnt get into the WOFT(Warrent Officer Flight Training) program because I couldn't pass the vision test. He's certianly not qualified to make that decision (I havn't heard of any opthamology training for army recuiters), so I told him to schedual the flight physical and I would let the the doctors make that decision.
Remember, until you're actually in the military, you can think on your own. Exercise that right.

 

[NeoCortex]

Is it possible to go back and have PRK done over the Lasik? I had PRK done and I love it.

 

[andrew]

CryptoMarine-
This is definately true. And you are doing the right thing by getting a Class1 Flight physical first before doing anything else. Also, I would suggest if you do plan on doing the Army program be damn sure to get a recruiter that knows what the hell he is doing. Make sure he has done a packet just like yours. Because I have done this for the Navy and now Army and my Army recruiter knows nothing about this process and it has made this a complete screw up. Now I am so far along I cant switch recruiters. Hell I just got a call today that there was something else they forgot to do and my package is at the Army's recruiting command post!! This has been going on for 6 months!! But I will know the final answer in 12 days (selected or not). In the end this has been frustrating as hell I wish I would have never gotten the LASIK but nothing we can do now. For me this is not the end of the world; but it is something I would like to do and I believe everyone should have to serve their country for at least two years. Anyhow, enough about that if you need any help or have any questions about the Army route, feel free to contact me. And about the regulations yes you are right they have to stop somewhere, and like I said before in the past if you didnt have 20/20 it was a simple "no Im sorry". But you are right they have do go by the guidelines and I respect them for that. I do hope that 1 day they will waiver LASIK because I believe they are loosing a lot of potentially good soldiers due to this policy.

 

[Thisguy]

dokeman,

Yes, my avatar is the nittany lion shrine...muck fichigan! Anyway, Neo, I don't think getting PRK after having lasik is going to solve anything. First, your vision is already corrected, and the flap has been made. reshaping the outside of your eye after it has been reshaped under the flap just sounds like a bad day. Also, if your flap comes off, the least of your concern is being blinded, because now your eye is exposed to the elements and there are going to be some serious infections. Also, just curious, what's the difference in the LASIK and LASEK procedures?

 

[NeoCortex]

LASEK is a form of PRK. My point on it is that PRK cuts off the cornea and LASIK creates a flap, so if you go back in a cut the flap it just becomes PRK. (Not a Dr. so I don't know if that would even work)

 

[Dokeman]

Andrew - I agree that they are probably missing some potentially good SNA/SNFOs with this but if they are able to fill the slots with the restriction in place then where's the pressure to change. They say necessity is the precursor to change.

NeoCortex - No. I checked with my optometrist and he said that since I'm seeing @ 20/15 with LASIK, no surgeon would want to go and re-cut your eyes for the pure reason of removing the "flap". There would be too much risk involved and your vision could get worse from the procedure. Bottom line - once you've had LASIK you're stuck with it. I have heard of people going back under the knife again because they weren't seeing @ 20/20 the first time, maybe then you could have the PRK instead of the LASIK treatment. But your vision has to be bad enough to warrant the follow-on treatment. I've got no complaints about the LASIK procedure, great results and I drove my car the day after my surgery. I just wish the Navy saw it differently....

 

[CryptoMarine]

LASIK- they cut back a flap of your eye and hit it with a lazer. Then they push the flap back over and the flap heals.

LASEK- They put a little ring on your cornea, put a drop of alchohol or something like it. This makes a very thin layer of the eye soft. They remove the ring and they can slide that thin layer of cornea to the side. They use the lazer then they slide the corneal layer back and it heals into place.

The advantages of LASEK is that you don't have to cut so many corneal nerves. This cuts back on dry eyes, which is the main complaint from LASIK. It's actually a lot like PRK, except that thin layer of corneal tissue helps prevent infection, which is the biggest danger of PRK. It supposedly has higher sucess rates and less side effect then PRK or LASIK. There is plenty of more in depth information on the internet. Don't have eye surgery without doing plenty of research first.