No habla army
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APKWS Hits the Fleet
- Thread starter SynixMan
- Start date
Among various other titles, but yes.
In general, navy helos are all multimission, but some communities are more ass and trash than others.
Yeah but multi mission will never equal gunship.
Believe me its not that I don't appreciate my lift, scout, and hook brethren. But with friends in all communities we have the luxury of hating on other missions and other platforms at the same time vs having to hate missions that all stem from Seahawks. I'm not even really that big a hater compared to most, but it drives me up a fucking wall watching guys with no gun background outside door guns tell me how well they could do my job (not so much here as hearing about DAP and how awesome it is).
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Have you met JoBoy?
Yeah, the Navy's never going to get a dedicated gunship*. There's not enough room onboard the ships, so the Navy will be happy to make due with "good enough" add ons to the 60R/S for what is pretty much a niche capability for a small subset of Naval helos.
*unless the world just goes completely mad
Hopefully you're not getting that vibe here from the Navy guys, because very few have a leg to stand on. The push back you may get here, though, is targeting over water with the system(s) we do have. A lot of us have done a lot of training engaging (but not actually shooting, ironically) small boats in less-than-lake-like sea states.
But I could totally out fly you in your gunsh!p because I played Longbow 2 in college. Resp3ct!!!1!
Which is the navy totally drinking the koolaid of the manufacturers and buying every bit of propaganda.
As good a YouTube video the DAP and the "Battlehawk" make, it's all propaganda for countries that can't afford to buy more than a few modern helicopters like the 60. It was never ment to do my job, but the videos make the layman think it can. Yes the 160th makes due with it, but that's because even with their budget they can't afford a niche gunship when if the mission calls for it they can just task AWTs to it (and they do). Like I tell the DAP advocates, a 60M costs just over 10 mil depending on options, a Longbow is over 30 mil... Your not going to substitute nearly 20 mil in mission equipment, sensors, weapons, etc with an aftermarket bolt on you don't train every day to employ, so shut up and carry the mail/troops/wounded/etc and carry on your mission and call me when you need something killed because that's my job.
Honestly, what impact do you guys expect 1-2 armed helos to make on a small boat swarm threat? Especially one where the majority of the boats are packing DShKs and SA-7's.
Not to mention the likely addition of a mix of Houdongs and Combattante's, as well as coastal missile batteries.
It just seems that in any scenario where the first line of defense against a coordinated swarm attack is a pair of HSL/HSC birds, we're already fucked.
My 2 cents is the only viable way to pick off a swarm like that is massive amounts of frag early on to thin the herd: 5" HEET/KEET and LGBs fused to airburst (if it even exists). Their formations have good dispersion, chasing them down to individually kill them with helos seems very inefficient.
That and of course, hitting them before they get a chance to even set this up.
Not to mention the likely addition of a mix of Houdongs and Combattante's, as well as coastal missile batteries.
It just seems that in any scenario where the first line of defense against a coordinated swarm attack is a pair of HSL/HSC birds, we're already fucked.
My 2 cents is the only viable way to pick off a swarm like that is massive amounts of frag early on to thin the herd: 5" HEET/KEET and LGBs fused to airburst (if it even exists). Their formations have good dispersion, chasing them down to individually kill them with helos seems very inefficient.
That and of course, hitting them before they get a chance to even set this up.
On the SA-7/14s... You guys have CMWS right?
The Dskh is an issue, one your not gonna get away from since we basically live in its WEZ.
Massed swarm of targets ranging in size but nothing with armor thicker than a tank.... Figure out a way to put an ALCM on a ship, they don't call it steal rain for nothing.
The Dskh is an issue, one your not gonna get away from since we basically live in its WEZ.
Massed swarm of targets ranging in size but nothing with armor thicker than a tank.... Figure out a way to put an ALCM on a ship, they don't call it steal rain for nothing.
We're starting to get into TTPs, so it's probably best to not continue down the path to answer your question here. Keep in mind, just because there's a section of rotary airborne doesn't mean that they're the only show in town, they just have a better SA picture because of on-station time and they're talking to everyone else for help.
The S/R FRS and fleet training curruculum trains to this threat from day one...well, day one of of the tactics portion, anyway.
Concur. This discussion has been treading a fine line, and I think that any further discussion of CONOPs, capabilities, and limitations, either ours or theirs should be curtailed in an open forum.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I was just going to say the same thing, especially since I just had my required annual CounterIntel Brief... Best one I've ever had - former Marine, now NCIS agent - and he ended it with "and now you've got your annual check in the box done."
You have to appreciate the carefully worded posts dancing around, but not completely penetrating, "sacred topics" ... way to go, BigRed
