Army to Navy OCS - Keeping Pay-grade

[eas7888]

The awards might be similar but not the same. The CAR is given out for being directly engaged with the enemy, including firefights and being hit by IEDs. The key difference with the CAB is that you only have to be engaged by the enemy. How is that different? The best example is IDF, the Navy don't get the CAR for being near a POI when on land (different story for being on a boat, even on tied to the pier). I know personally of several Army guys that have gotten the CAB for ISF that impacted less than 100, 50 or 25 meters away from them (whatever the command's criteria was at the time). As a matter of fact most of the soldiers I know who have gotten a CAB got it for IDF, and most never stepped off a FOB. That is why they are not equal. Quibbling? Maybe, but they are definitely not equal in any sailor's eyes who has seen a soldier get a CAB when they get nothing for being at the same place, same time as a the soldier with the only difference being they wore a US Navy nametag instead of a US Army one.

One thing to note, the latest version of the 1650 only lists the CIB and the CMB as being able to be converted to the CAR, no mention of the CAB.

Has the 1650 been updated since the introduction of the CAB?

In reference to the indirect fire: There's been a real crackdown on this, at least while I was there. In order for indirect fire to be considered an acceptable circumstance for your CAB, you had to be actively engaging the shooter engaging you. Again, this was per our Brigade commander. If it were up to me, IDF wouldn't be considered acceptable criteria for the issue of a CAB, just my opinion.

I find it strange that the Navy will award the CAR if you receive IDF on a ship, but not while on a FOB. Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it's an odd situation. Looking at the criteria I posted earlier, it would seem that the issuance of the award is just more subjective in nature.

And the text you bolded wasn't meant to say that Navy personnel are not in harms way overseas, only to state that a larger percentage of people overseas are Army.

 

[Flash]

Sounds like the issue isn't the criteria for the awards but rather CABs being handed out like candy. From what it sounds like, some of the instances you mention shouldn't get neither the CAR nor the CAB. I've heard of Bronze Stars being handed out for lesser circumstances. Wrong, yes, but that happens unfortunately.

In my slice of the world it is seems to be the well-known and accepted standard endorsed by the leadership and staff, from local to division command and above. And yes, Bronze Stars too.

 

[eas7888]

Sounds like the issue isn't the criteria for the awards but rather CABs being handed out like candy. From what it sounds like, some of the instances you mention shouldn't get neither the CAR nor the CAB. I've heard of Bronze Stars being handed out for lesser circumstances. Wrong, yes, but that happens unfortunately.

Don't even get me started on the issue of Bronze Stars. In our Brigade, any soldier who was a convoy commander or a platoon sergeant/platoon leader who didn't royally fuck up, got a BSM...just for doing their job. Granted, it wasn't a BSM w a valor device...but it was still a BSM. I'm still a little hot over that ordeal.

And I agree with you Stalin, all too often, ribbons/badges/awards are being handed out like candy. It cheapens it for some of us who feel we've earned ours.

 

[Flash]

Has the 1650 been updated since the introduction of the CAB?

Yes, 1650.1H is current as of 27 Sept 2006.

In reference to the indirect fire: There's been a real crackdown on this, at least while I was there. In order for indirect fire to be considered an acceptable circumstance for your CAB, you had to be actively engaging the shooter engaging you. Again, this was per our Brigade commander. If it were up to me, IDF wouldn't be considered acceptable criteria for the issue of a CAB, just my opinion.

Fortunately or unfortunately you and your Brigade CO don't make the rules. I know some who have earned the CAB the hard way scoff at those who don't. One big difference is I believe all combat/valor awards from CENTCOM for the Navy go through a Navy awards board back in the states, the final say on the CAR and other combat related awards is not with the local commander. This is easy for the Navy since the numbers are much smaller than the Army's but ensures more uniformity with combat awards.

I find it strange that the Navy will award the CAR if you receive IDF on a ship, but not while on a FOB. Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it's an odd situation.

It is a bit odd at first glance but when you consider very few people on a ship can actually shoot back, unlike in land combat, the award is a collective one awarded to an entire crew of the ship. If you look up the criteria for the CAR there is one for land and one for sea (slow connection, can't link the PDF).

Looking at the criteria I posted earlier, it would seem that the issuance of the award is just more subjective in nature.

The Navy CAR has much more explicit language as to what qualifies, the leeway that the Army award gives commanders along with the much larger numbers of soldiers in combat compared to sailors makes it certain that there will be a lot more variance in awarding the CAB.

 

[SpaceApe29]

Okay I found my original questions answer in the regs - I keep my Army Jump wings since I haven't jumped with a Navy / Marine Corps unit. The CIB I send the paperwork to my personnel section and they determine if I qualify for the CAR, which my paperwork states active ground combat (many times over that tour) and my EIB is not authorized.

As far as pay grade I read that you need the paperwork for promotion from the Army to be given the first week of OCS to the personnel section. Safer just to bring your whole "I love me" book or folder with all your awards anyways.

 

[eas7888]

Safer just to bring your whole "I love me" book or folder with all your awards anyways.

Sounds like a plan

 

[SpaceApe29]

Now I'm worried that I won't get accepted for anything - I screwed up my first year of college and OR recalculated my GPA to a 2.66 for this board. Hopefully the board will see that I was taking classes as a grunt and give a little leeway on the gpa since my NCOERs are good and my letters of recommendation are from solid people who know me in the Army, including a Brigadier General.

That's why I switched to online classes, Infantry units don't care if you have classes, need to study, etc. all they care about is "Did you pass?". I couldn't get time off from my Team Leader, even when we weren't doing anything, to study and had to skip dinner to do it and make "drug deals" with the professors to take my tests and quizzes on the weekends I had off.