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Army's newest flight gear..

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
Most of the bulk you see in that photo is from ammunition. I am not sure you guys carry as much. I have 8 M4 magazines attached to me in that photo, 6 high on my chest under my vest (not part of the airwarrior) and another 2 in one of the forward pockets.

Also, the armor and the vest are two separate pieces. But, other than the placement of the medical items, there is no SOP on where to have everything, so you are free to do as you like. Some people have the knife/seatbelt cutter on their leg, some on their vest, some wear their pistol on their leg, some on the vest, some with a shoulder holster under it all.

Oh, and we do have to add the over-water kit when we are back in Hawaii - heeds bottle and flotation collar. But luckily, we get rid of the body armor at that time too...

I will add that most people have to take out the back seat cushion in order to have enough room to move the cyclic around. But, our motorscooter has never been known to have a lot of room.

Phrog - that is a HF. Unfortunately, it stayed on the rail that day :(

I can understand how the ammunition and armor might be bulky and in the way, but isn't it hard flying around with that big white dot over your face? :icon_tong
 

bobbybrock

Registered User
None
Flew on active duty with the airwarrior. It was great in the desert especially the cooling vest. No type of ECU in H-60L so tht helped on 50C plus days. It also had lots of room for extra ammo like 58D stated.
My guard unit just got wireless ICS which is great for our medics. I'm not sure why the Army does things they way they do. This is the fourth type of vest I've had since 1994. Anyway the airwarrior hasn't found it to my guard unit yet. I'm sure we'll see it when it is time to mob. I believe that most of this procurement is a by-product of the RAH-66 getting the ax.
 

Coota0

Registered User
None
You may kije the toys but....

Army Research Unit Developing New Way to Assign Pilots to Advanced Aircraft
Jun 11, 2007
BY Mollie Miller

A Company B, 2nd Battalion, 135th Aviation Regiment, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade CH-47 Chinook prepares to conduct a nighttime mission at LSA Anaconda, Iraq. Photo by Staff Sgt. R.A. Steele
FORT RUCKER, Ala. (Army News Service, June 11, 2007) - A team of Fort Rucker researchers is assembling a new computer-based test that will help the Army determine the best aircraft and mission for aviator candidates.

The computer-based test, called the Track Assignment Classification Tool or TACT, will replace the traditional order-of-merit aircraft selection process and should, according to officials, maximize the likelihood of a pilot completing a successful career as an Army aviator.

"The whole idea is that this should increase pilots' job satisfaction because we are placing them where they look like they best fit based on their skills, abilities, personality constructs and demographics," said research psychologist Dr. Larry Katz. "The rationale is that if we could assign individuals to the aircraft and mission type that they are best suited for, it might increase retention and improve an aviator's career overall."

Dr. Katz and a team of researchers at Fort Rucker's U.S. Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences Rotary Wing Aviation Research Unit began developing the new test about one year ago when Army leadership requested "a classification instrument for assigning aviator candidates to a specific aviation mission and aircraft type."

Currently, aviators are assigned to their missions and aircraft during flight school based on an order-of-merit list derived from academic and flight grades, with those at the top of the list normally getting to select the aircraft of their choice and those at the bottom being assigned aircraft based on the Army's needs.

Once TACT is officially implemented, Dr. Katz said aviators are more likely to be assigned to the mission and aircraft that best fit their needs and abilities.

In its current design, the two-and-a-half hour TACT test measures mechanical comprehension, spatial apperception, demographics, personality characteristics and perceptual speed and accuracy through multiple choice questions and multi-tasking scenarios. The test station includes a joy stick, a "throttle," a computer screen and head phones.

"Yes, the test is challenging, but fun, too, because it is a bit like playing a video game," Dr. Katz said.

Dr. William Howse, chief of the Rotary Wing Aviation Research Unit, said the TACT is just one more way his team is trying to create an even better aviation training program. Dr. Howse said the TACT will maximize the overall probability of success in training and maximize the fit of students to their assigned aircraft.

"(We are trying to) improve the aviators while keeping the costs in control," he said. "By selecting the right people, we reduce training losses (like) individuals who don't complete the training."

Before the test is recommended to the Army, Dr. Katz and his team will rotate 120 test subjects, 30 pilots from each of the four advanced aircraft, through their facility to take the test. Dr. Katz said the test subjects, mostly instructor-pilots or standardization-pilots with at least 500 flight hours, who have already taken the test have said it is a difficult test and that it is right on the mark.

CW4 Danny Andrews, an instructor-pilot and flight examiner who has been assisting Dr. Katz's team with the test's development, said TACT is very challenging because of the amount of concentration required during certain portions of the test.

Chief Andrews called the portion of the test that asks pilots to track two "targets" on the computer screen while listening for only odd numbers in the right side of a headset "difficult," but noted that pilots are asked to multi-task like that frequently in the real world.

"The environment the test creates is very similar to what pilots would be doing in the aircraft," he said.

Dr. Katz admitted the final product will be difficult, but if it weren't challenging, it wouldn't sort the pilots into the correct missions and aircraft.

Although the current TACT is made up of several elements right now, Dr. Katz said at least a few might disappear before the final product is presented to the Army.

"We are just testing these to see which ones turn out to be useful in terms of sorting individuals into this mission or that mission," he said.

Dr. Katz said his team hopes to have a product ready for recommendation to the Army by August. While he doesn't know when the Army will officially implement the new aircraft assignment test, he said the tests his organization creates are usually put into practice within about six months.

"This is much better than what we have been doing in the past," Chief Andrews said of the test. "It is going to make a huge difference in Army Aviation."

http://www.army.mil/-news/2007/06/11/3519-army-research-unit-developing-new-way-to-assign-pilots-to-advanced-aircraft/
 

Oh-58Ddriver

Scouts Out!
None
Contributor
Flew on active duty with the airwarrior. It was great in the desert especially the cooling vest. No type of ECU in H-60L so tht helped on 50C plus days. It also had lots of room for extra ammo like 58D stated.
My guard unit just got wireless ICS which is great for our medics. I'm not sure why the Army does things they way they do. This is the fourth type of vest I've had since 1994. Anyway the airwarrior hasn't found it to my guard unit yet. I'm sure we'll see it when it is time to mob. I believe that most of this procurement is a by-product of the RAH-66 getting the ax.


Cooling vests??? Are you kidding me??? Where the hell did they all go??!?! Our idea of air conditioning is kicking it severely out of trim (read: sideways) with the doors off and tooling down the route doing recon as the rush of 50 degree C weather rushes through the cockpit (read: hairdryer). Of course, I dont think we'd have room for a cooling vest. After about an hour when you're drenched in sweat you can lean forward and let the air go between your armor and your body and it almost feels cool. Our unit did buy Nalgene sleeves to insulate our bottles of water so they dont boil after an hour.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
So, I've been thinking about the whole idea of the Army getting better gear than us while I sit in class all day. Someone had mentioned that no one HAZREPs the stuff, so NAVAIR never knows that there's a problem. I would tend to think that the reason no one HAZREPs their gear is because they don't know that there's a better alternative available to them. And since you don't know that an alternative is available, everyone just sucks it up, NAVAIR never hears about the problem, and it doesn't get bumped up high enough in their list of priorities for it to be deemed worthy of the small amounts of money available. I know of at least one HAZREP written on the subject of someone's ass that eventually resulted in some upgraded seat cushions for the 60. Of course, you can fight with WESS to your heart's content, it doesn't always mean that your CO is gonna release a HAZREP about how your ass hurts after a long flight or how NVGs make your neck sore.

Getting back to the knowledge of other gear, how often do you actually get to find out about other flight gear that's available? Maybe a trade show? How often do you get to go to a trade show? How do we know that there's anything better available? I know my TV sucks because I see an ad telling me that my current TV is obsolete and that I really need to go spend my money on the newer, better model. But I don't see very many ads for NAVAIR approved flight gear. How often does a flight crew actually get to use something different? Unless you happen to score some sort of drug-deal hop with the Army or AF, it's hard to know whether or not you're keeping up with the Jones'.

All that being said, from OH-58D's pic, it doesn't look like their vest is any less bulky and intrusive than ours. It might look a little smaller, but it doesn't have the lobes on for flotation, plus it doesn't have the huge HABD hanging off of it. Also, not sure if I'd be happy with changing out my thigh pockets for BDU style pockets on the side. Seems like that'd make it harder to get at all the scraps of paper I put in them while flying.

If it wasn't for airwarriors, I'd never even know about CEP. I don't think a single guy in my squadron uses them. A few have personally purchased oregon aero stuff, but that's about the only non-standard gear I know of. I think our PR shop is currently spending a lot of it's money on survival suits for the AWs, leaving very little left over for the finer things in life.

I can raise the issue to the right folks at NAVAIR, BUT Pags is on the right track....if you don't raise it as an issue, NAVAIR can't do boo about it because it's not NAVAIR that is the issue, it's your own chain of command.

NAVAIR does what the Warfare Sponsor tells them and under the Naval Aviation Enterprise (NAE), the fleet has a bigger say than ever. The head of the NAE is Commander Naval Air Force (CNAF) and all the commodores report to him for requirements. The current NAVAIR program office, PMA-202 is well aware of the issues, BUT they have been stripped to the bone as far as funding and the fleet did away with the ALSS OAG a few years ago SO anything to do Aviation Life Support System (ALSS) is only given priority/funding if the individual platforms/community raise ALSS as an issue against other things they ask for in their OAG (or its new incarnation).

PMA-202 recently sat with Commander Naval Air Force reps at AIRLANT in an attempt to bring the commodores at the Type Wings into the picture and get them to respond to addressing these issues as a united voice. As you might have guessed, a strong showing by the aviators was absent. There is a network of AMSOs out there in both Naval And Marine aviation communities, but aviators have to step up and speak out as to what they want. Most of you are shooting at the wrong target as NAVAIR has been trying to raise the issue for years as their budget was slashed in the Naval Capability Development Process (NCDP) because ALSS doesn't fit that model as a warwinning "capability". It's your own chain that is letting you down. Start speaking up in a formal manner and your voice will be heard where it counts.
 

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Aren't the days of OAGs over? I thought that term was now dead, and it was up to the COs of operational commands to get together informally with their COMMOs to rack and stack. Then with Commos signatures, the requirements are vetted up to the ROs at the Pentagon for the ensuing battle of who gets the coin.

It looks like the legacy airframes get funding for sustainment and some safety upgrades. No funding for ALSS stuff, even though humans are the most important part (for now) of the machine/person interface of flying. IMO, it seems the only way to get stuff like this funded is cost of war, or congressional plus ups.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Aren't the days of OAGs over? I thought that term was now dead, and it was up to the COs of operational commands to get together informally with their COMMOs to rack and stack. Then with Commos signatures, the requirements are vetted up to the ROs at the Pentagon for the ensuing battle of who gets the coin.

It looks like the legacy airframes get funding for sustainment and some safety upgrades. No funding for ALSS stuff, even though humans are the most important part (for now) of the machine/person interface of flying. IMO, it seems the only way to get stuff like this funded is cost of war, or congressional plus ups.

According to AIRLANT, there is a new name (that's why I said "or its new incarnation"). CNAF still weighs in haevily every summer to rack n stack for the fall Program Requirements Review (PRR) in OPNAV (at N88). The Commodores can always send their druthers to their respective ROs, but CNAF's rack n stack can trump the individual RO advocacy. USFFC is also saber rattling to weigh in at their level across communities. I'll check next week to see if they have released the name of their new "community advocacy process".
 

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Sounds good. Hope the money tree has many leaves and we get our stuff.
 

Dstar

Registered User
pilot
I have been watching this post go on and on. The bottom line is that NAVAIR, specifically PMA-202, has answered the Fleet's request. The Multi-Climate Protection System (MCPS) is good gear. You have to order it in order to get it. For those who do not know what the MCPS is, it is new cold weather flight gear. Three levels of fire resistant thermal underwear, Fleece jackets, and a Gore-Tex jacket and pants. Only the USMC and USN have it. I had 160th SOAR guys eyeing it all the time. Maxillo Facial Shields (MFS) for RW crew chiefs are available as well. That is the Darth Vader Face shield shown for the USA RW helmet in an earlier post. So Google PMA-202, sign up and see what is available and authorized for flight. I have found that you do not get what you do not ask for.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
I have been watching this post go on and on. The bottom line is that NAVAIR, specifically PMA-202, has answered the Fleet's request. The Multi-Climate Protection System (MCPS) is good gear. You have to order it in order to get it. For those who do not know what the MCPS is, it is new cold weather flight gear.
Man, good thing we're not involved in a conflict in the desert... :rolleyes:
 

Dstar

Registered User
pilot
Iraq and Afghanistan both get pretty chilly. It even snows in both countries. Looks like you have not been in the fight…..
 

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I have found that you do not get what you do not ask for.

Financially speaking, it's more complex than that. I've yet to see a command just order what they want because it's authorized. Commands are given limited money for flight gear (7F). Most is spent for basic resupply. Imagine the cost of outfitting 35 pilots and 100 aircrew with a full outfit of this gucci gear. I think the only folks that will be authorized this stuff is those that have a specific need. I wish we could buy anything with an NSN attached. I'd be decked out.

Altruistically speaking, it's true. NAVAIR in general is one of the most customer service based organizations and professional organizations in the USN. If the fleet asks them for something, they are no kidding all over it looking for solutions.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
The cold weather gear is really nice -- a big improvement. And to whoever said it -- it has snowed in Balad (just north of Baghdad).

One thing that we have experimented with is to sew MOLLE straps into aircrew body armor. This has allowed us to attach whatever we need to our body armor and have everything in one kit. If you could add enough flotation to that system, we would be made.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Financially speaking, it's more complex than that. I've yet to see a command just order what they want because it's authorized. Commands are given limited money for flight gear (7F). Most is spent for basic resupply. Imagine the cost of outfitting 35 pilots and 100 aircrew with a full outfit of this gucci gear. I think the only folks that will be authorized this stuff is those that have a specific need. I wish we could buy anything with an NSN attached. I'd be decked out.

Altruistically speaking, it's true. NAVAIR in general is one of the most customer service based organizations and professional organizations in the USN. If the fleet asks them for something, they are no kidding all over it looking for solutions.

Indeed 7F is limited, but commands can ask for the TYCOM for additional funds especially if it's related to combat deployment. New gear is provided as initial issue without tapping the squadron 7F funds. You've got to speak up to find out what the art of the possible is and get engaged to influence what NAVAIR ultimately develops and provides. Again, NAVAIR responds to the Warfare Sponsor, which is N88 and where the Requirements Officers reside. There is at least one for every platform and in case of platforms operated by Navy and Marine Corps, there will be an RO from both services typically assigned. There are also ROs for common avionics and ALSS (traditionally a CH-46 type). ROs talk directly to the respective Commodores and Program Managers at NAVAIR so engage them! They are like your Congressman and fight for your community interests in Washington.
 
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