ASW without puke?! Not in my Navy!!

[Renegade One]

Case in point, how many A/A kills does the VF/VFA community have post Vietnam? I guess we're all fucked.

Wow...just wow. There's a lot of hate here, for some reason.
The point, I think, is that, despite the lack of opportunity, exposure, presented threat, etc., the VFA/VMFA communities continue to train pretty damned hard to that mission set... with some primacy...along with much else...

 

[Renegade One]

If I can't debrief you on talking out your ass about a topic you've admitted that you know nothing about... in front of a room full of SMEs, then where does that leave us?

Maybe we could just agree to ignoring each other? That would work for me...

 

[Brett327]

Wow...just wow. There's a lot of hate here, for some reason.
The point, I think, is that, despite the lack of opportunity, exposure, presented threat, etc., the VFA/VMFA communities continue to train pretty damned hard to that mission set... with some primacy...along with much else...

Do you even read your own posts?

 

[Renegade One]

As with your VF examples, those that can make a difference are doing so.

That's heartening...thanks. I know it's probably the toughest war-fighting problem that is "totally Navy"...glad to know the right folks are on it...

 

[zab1001]

There's temptation to dwell on your inflammatory posts. I won't. It's a tough problem with less and less resources and experience to deal with it. We're the world's best. You have 31 years in? Then you know that there's a lot of folks cranking at 115% to ensure it's dealt with, and will be in the future.

 

[MasterBates]

ASW trains pretty hard to that set, without an actual threat. For us, the actual weapon drop is EASY compared to maneuvering a fighter to the proper place.

It's the getting there that is "HARD". ASW is more like high stakes chess, and less like high stakes poker.

I've tracked uncooperative non-ally subs that didn't know I was there, based off of a datum that was derived the same way as how we would start looking for them if things heated up/were shooting already, localizes and maintained a firing solution on them. In crappy environmental conditions. And I was far from the most experienced guy.

To put this into VFA terms, I had SA on the bandit, and did all my sim shots on timeline, and went to the merge and could have waxed him, if the proper authorization came to me over HawkLink. And this was with a sub that I never saw, who I never briefed, who was not trying to be found or tracked. And the 60B is not the best platform for this. The 60R is better. Much better from what I have seen.

 

[jmcquate]

Wierd where this has gone from "The guys in the back of a P-8 still puke, just like the P-3".

 

[Brett327]

There's temptation to dwell on your inflammatory posts. I won't. It's a tough problem with less and less resources and experience to deal with it. We're the world's best. You have 31 years in? Then you know that there's a lot of folks cranking at 115% to ensure it's dealt with, and will be in the future.

This is the smartest thing anyone has said on this topic.

 

[zab1001]

and I bet those P-8 Hot Pockets are super crispy and have molten cheese and taste of hot hate for any sub-surface contacts that threaten our God given Right to watch Snooki get arrested. AGAIN. mmmmmmmmmm

 

[phrogpilot73]

Picking stuff up, dropping stuff off, fly low, fold maps, talk about your "ramp".....is that it, or did I miss a minor point?

You missed losing maps out the window. Oh, and missing our Charlie times to piss the Harrier guys off... But other than that - you pretty much hit it all...

 

[Harrier Dude]

You missed losing maps out the window. Oh, and missing our Charlie times to piss the Harrier guys off... But other than that - you pretty much hit it all...

I didn't realize that being late was a T&R event. I always just attributed it to gross incompetence.

Smiles, etc.

 

[Gatordev]

Yeah, I agree to much of above...I can rig the shit out of a ship, and fly racetrack/orbits all day...might take two passes to hit an expendable right now

I didn't mean it as a dig on any one community, so sorry if it came across that way. Contrary to what maintenance says, I SWEAR the buttons keep getting moved on the keyset when doing ASW, hence my comment on button-pushing. I'm just looking forward to having an actual "FIX" button again.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I didn't realize that being late was a T&R event. I always just attributed it to gross incompetence.

Smiles, etc.

It's a 9000 level code. Performance standard is +/-30 secs from the Harrier Charlie time, with +/-5 minutes of fuel to splash.

Incompetence are the guys that arrive with enough gas to hang out in the D while you guys Charlie.

The point, I think, is that, despite the lack of opportunity, exposure, presented threat, etc., the VFA/VMFA communities continue to train pretty damned hard to that mission set... with some primacy...along with much else...

I think this is what is chappin' most peoples asses. You assume that the P-3 community doesn't train pretty damn hard to their mission sets.

VFA/VMFA has a multitude of mission sets, CAS, DAS, SCAR, FAC(A), etc... I would bet that the focus over the last decade for deployment workups has not been A/A, but likely the other ones... After all, it's a skill/mission set that the VFA/VMFA community is expected to show up in theater with their A game. I don't remember the last time someone shot down an aircraft from the all-threatening, uuber-experienced Taliban Air Force. I hear that their pilot was a graduate of سب سے زیادہ بندوق *, so we were lucky we got the kill.

The P-3 Community also has a multitude of mission sets, and much like VFA/VMFA they are likely tailoring their training for their deployments based on what they're told by higher, SIPR, JWICS, etc... You say you don't know shit about ASW, then lambast the SMEs because of what VFA/VMFA does? When you've been removed from VFA/VMFA for a decade? That's why people are getting pissed.

For the record - my community has a multitude of mission sets as well. But they all boil down to taking off, landing, and maybe some hovering in between. Gives us more time to drink, since we don't have to study as much...

* - for those that actually understand that - Yes, I know it's Urdu - spoken in Pakistan, and not Pashto - spoken in Afghanistan. But it was the closest language that Google Translate could give me, because I only barely speak English, and I'm getting enough French under my belt to get 75 Reserve Retirement Credits from MarineNet.

 

[robav8r]

The P-3 Community also has a multitude of mission sets, and much like VFA/VMFA they are likely tailoring their training for their deployments based on what they're told by higher, SIPR, JWICS, etc...

ASW always has been, and continues to be "hard" for lots of reasons. Like HAL eluded to, in the 80's, it was not uncommon for a CSG ( Battle Group back then), to remain at sea until the ASW portion of the problem had been resolved. The CSG Commander & CAG would laugh at you these days if you expected to add steaming hours to a C2X, JTFEX, etc for ASW. Add to this the normal optempo constraints like flight hours, steaming hours, sonobuoy NCEA, etc (like every other community) and you just exaserbate the problem. I agree with many that it's probably going to take a smoking datum in some AOR to get folks refocused on a threat that has always been there.

 

[Renegade One]

There's temptation to dwell on your inflammatory posts. I won't. It's a tough problem with less and less resources and experience to deal with it. We're the world's best. You have 31 years in? Then you know that there's a lot of folks cranking at 115% to ensure it's dealt with, and will be in the future.

Sorry...I don't think I really meant to be inflammatory. Apologize to one and all if that's how I came across. I agree...you guys and gals are the world's best.

This is the smartest thing anyone has said on this topic.

Agree.

ASW trains pretty hard to that set, without an actual threat. For us, the actual weapon drop is EASY compared to maneuvering a fighter to the proper place.

It's the getting there that is "HARD". ASW is more like high stakes chess, and less like high stakes poker.

I've tracked uncooperative non-ally subs that didn't know I was there, based off of a datum that was derived the same way as how we would start looking for them if things heated up/were shooting already, localizes and maintained a firing solution on them. In crappy environmental conditions. And I was far from the most experienced guy.

To put this into VFA terms, I had SA on the bandit, and did all my sim shots on timeline, and went to the merge and could have waxed him, if the proper authorization came to me over HawkLink. And this was with a sub that I never saw, who I never briefed, who was not trying to be found or tracked. And the 60B is not the best platform for this. The 60R is better. Much better from what I have seen.

Again, thanks. Another very informative part of the discussion. There ought to be a way for me to get "continuing Education" credits from AW threads! God knows I can use 'em...