Attack of the Sailing Nerds

[Swanee]

and the wings are acting more as a sail, not an airfoil.

Incoming sailing lesson:sleep_125:

Believe it or not, sails are indeed airfoils. Only at one point of sail (running with the wind, or dead downwind in non nautical speak) does a sail act as a windcatcher and not an airfoil. Even so, sailing skiffs (29er, 49er, 18ft) sail on aparent wind and because they do so they actually have the ability to sail faster than the wind while running. They bend their apparent wind around so that they trim for a reaching course while sailing a run. Wild I know, Bernoulli is our buddy.

Better description is that the wings are acting as a parachute maybe?

/sailing lesson

 

[MasterBates]

Depart controlled flight in a T-45 and tell me how much you think the wings are acting as a parachute.

 

[eddie]

Even so, sailing skiffs (29er, 49er, 18ft) sail on aparent wind and because they do so they actually have the ability to sail faster than the wind while running. They bend their apparent wind around so that they trim for a reaching course while sailing a run. Wild I know, Bernoulli is our buddy.

If only we could get rid of the drag of the hull...

Now, this thread is being boarded... by nerds!

How do you sail (not row... ) into the wind with one of these?

Pic 1: Typical depiction: fluffy, fat, billowing petticoats, that look nice in pictures. Was that effective sail shape back then, or is it always artistic liscense?

Pic 2: More appropriate pic than 1, but same question as the trireme.

 

[HighDimension]

You all managed to derail a thread that was split off from another derailed thread. I'm more and more impressed with this place each day.

 

[Swanee]

If only we could get rid of the drag of the hull...

Now, this thread is being boarded... by nerds!

How do you sail (not row... ) into the wind with one of these?

Pic 1: Typical depiction: fluffy, fat, billowing petticoats, that look nice in pictures. Was that effective sail shape back then, or is it always artistic liscense?

Pic 2: More appropriate pic than 1, but same question as the trireme.

Sailing nerds! AHH, we wear topsiders and khakis with polo shirts and drink champaigne while playing cricket at the yacht club in Connecticut.


But ah, the skiff does just that by planing the hull right out of the water!

As far as sails of the square rigger days go, well, they were pretty much stuck with either reaching across the wind, or sailing dead downwind. Square sails are simply bedsheets that catch wind. (as you see in Pic 1, though a bit artistic, you get the idea that they hung their bed sheets up to catch whatever wind they could)

But the Phoenicians invented the triangle sail around 500 A.D. (those Europeans were just a bit behind the curve) that allowed them to sail up wind. You can see some of them in pic 2.

You still can't sail directly into the wind though. As your sail stalls (or luffs in sail speak) you lose that airflow that give you driving force forward, much like what Nittany was explaining on what happened with that KC-135. On you get into irons, no matter how you trim your sail you won't go forward. So you have no diving force, you are dead in the water and you must wait for the wind to push you around to where you can get the right airflow over your sail. (or you can backwind, sail backwards and get back on to a point of sail to go foward... heheh, sailing nerds.

Now back you to regularly scheduled thread about unauthorized passengers (personally, I'd make 'em walk the plank.):icon_wink

 

[eddie]

Ah, the beauty of a planing hull.

As far as sails of the square rigger days go, well, they were pretty much stuck with either reaching across the wind, or sailing dead downwind.

Did some looking in the meanwhile, for those who are curious.

http://www.jstor.org/sici?sici=0021-1753(195903)50:1<61:SC>2.0.CO;2-2

Aside from a rather liteary description of Classical Greek tacking, the article suggests that any two-masted ship can sail somewhat into the wind (although the mechanics that allow for it I have yet to find a good description of) ???

http://www.weatherlysquareriggers.com/

The 2nd link provides: "the British Admiralty through a systematic serie of sea trials between 1825 and 1845, it being observed that ships which could brace their yards sharpest outsailed the others, even if they were smaller."

Square sails apparantly could be used to sail close(r).

Granted, bermuda rigged and xebec-style ships were obviously best-suited to this kind of manuvering, but, if anyone knows, I would be more curious to read up on the more technical aspects of square-rigger handling and points of sail.

[/nerd]

 

[TheBubba]

I refuse to sail anything which I cannot take upwind. I, for some crazy reason, love to sail as close to the wind as I can.

 

[nittany03]

 

[eddie]

I refuse to sail anything which I cannot take upwind. I, for some crazy reason, love to sail as close to the wind as I can.

Heel'd over, hiked out, shuddering just a little. What's not to love? Plus it feels like you are going faster than you are. And since "feeling is believing..."

Kind of bummed: the pond my school club tools around on is still mostly frozen. At least I have gliding to look forward this summer.

 

[VIZKRIEG]

If only we could get rid of the drag of the hull...

Easy answer for this...Ice boating!

I went with a guy I did some construction work for this semester. He's an amazing carpenter and built the boat himself. It's beautiful and FAST. I highly recommend it to anyone who isn't afraid of a little speed.

 

[HeloBubba]

Easy answer for this...Ice boating!

I went with a guy I did some construction work for this semester. He's an amazing carpenter and built the boat himself. It's beautiful and FAST. I highly recommend it to anyone who isn't afraid of a little speed.

It is not the speed that frightens me. It is the speed at 1 foot off the deck.

 

[schwarti]

Anyone here seen a Moth in action? Saw one last weekend, those things FLY...

 

[TheBubba]

Heel'd over, hiked out, shuddering just a little. What's not to love? Plus it feels like you are going faster than you are. And since "feeling is believing..."

Kind of bummed: the pond my school club tools around on is still mostly frozen. At least I have gliding to look forward this summer.

Screw hiked out. I'm a big boat guy. I like'em big and fast.

 

[bacardi00185]

Moths are ridiculously awesome, however if you want really sick try sailing 505 in 10+. However as Bubba says big boat is the way to go...Nothing beats a Gulf Stream crossing on the way to Bermuda in 30 knots gusting higher as you ride down the back side of a wave on the verge of out of control!!!
Only wish I could make more memories and kill more bain cells by doing Newport-Bermuda this year, but Kingsville is keeping me in South Texas instead of the Swizzle Inn.

 

[eddie]

Screw hiked out. I'm a big boat guy. I like'em big and fast.

I've always wanted to sail on a bigger, fast boat... and hike out on it.