Aviation Uniforms and Customs for the new ENS

[0621 Hertz]

from an Intermediate/Advanced student's perspective:

Generally,

• Shine your shoes. It makes you stand out in a good way.
• Zip your zippers and don't wear anything funkier on your shoulder than a college patch. If it's cold wear your Nomex. No ballcaps.
• Mustaches are shady...I got yelled at for one in API but here it seems like a CQ tradition.
• Nobody without wings wears the G-1. It was verboten by unwritten regs or consensus I guess.
• EDIT: Some places don't like you wearing the Nomex Fleece even if it's what you were issued. Ask around.

I prefer to be Mr. Pags' "grey man student" and not give anybody unnecessary rope to hang myself with.

I'm in Primary now, some stuff seems to change tbh. Some 2020 insight...

• Desert flight suits are now worn by everyone at Whiting during the summer, except for Internationals and Coast Guard
• Students who are med down at API pool also wear their NWUs now I think, also NWUs/MARPAT are allowed to be worn on duty any day of the week.
• I had a mustache for all of API and nobody cared. Maybe because API was at the annex building and there is no higher ups around at all. (Don't have one now, it comes and goes)
• I've seen students with ballcaps and dip their covers, nobody seems to care. (I'm USMC so I don't wear it/authorized to dip anyways)
• It's the summer now but during the winter months some students were actually encouraged to wear the G-1 and trash their Ikes for good (dress like a SWO...). But yeah wearing them without patches is a little silly.
• I've seen students with Meme patches and nobody really cares. Although its kinda funny that students seem to have a chip on their shoulder as soon as they solo. (I get it dude you soloed a T6 and you're soooo cool)

In regards to the whole G-1 thing, reading older threads here IPs used to be upset when students wore brown boots but now we get issued them at API and... nobody cares.

 

[wlawr005]

I'm not surprised the Marine helo mafia eventually got their way and forced all the Navy studs to wear desert flight suits along with the Marines. You know, students do better if there's some uniformity. Please note that's not true everywhere in CNATRA.

 

[0621 Hertz]

Why are the instructors and leadership allowing civilian admin staff to do that, then? We shouldn't expect civilians to supervise JOs.

Because some held these jobs for over 20 years and they think they know everything.

However, the sleeveless fleece is gonna get ya made fun of everytime. That thing is an abomination and has no place in carrier aviation.

So if I go maritime I can wear the Mister Rogers vest?

 

[wlawr005]

Good analogy. Wearing a jacket without sleeves is very much like selecting "jets".

 

[Birdbrain]

I've worn mine maybe a dozen or so times in the colder months of primary, that issued summer weight nomex is trash. Only IP who made a comment of it is also the guy whose always good for snarky remarks towards studs for anything, by extension meaning nothing by them. Only people who kept up this "don't wear the leather jacket BS" were students who never can recall where they heard it from. Funny enough I got the crap Sir'ed out of me when I did wear.

Not trying to rage against you, I just think its an assumed danger and in reality little more than an illusion. Everything else checks out.

I also really don't like being cold.

I remember that now. You were the only student I ever saw wear the G-1 yet. We talked about this in the PAO office. I still think it was a good look man.

As an instructor, I just think the G1 looks dumb with no patches or a name tag. I'm pretty sure that you're supposed to have a name tag per the regs but I'm not smart on shit like that. And no one wants to ruin it with a name tag prior to getting wings.

By all means, please wear it.

However, the sleeveless fleece is gonna get ya made fun of everytime. That thing is an abomination and has no place in carrier aviation.

By all means, wear that too. I like to laugh.

I won't wear the fleece, as I don't own one, but I may start wearing the G-1 when it gets colder. It just looks cool.

I'm in Primary now, some stuff seems to change tbh. Some 2020 insight...

In regards to the whole G-1 thing, reading older threads here IPs used to be upset when students wore brown boots but now we get issued them at API and... nobody cares.

Yea that's a good comparison. I think it's nuts that guys used to wear those issued black flight boots until they winged and then got brown flight boots. But it used to be the norm. Glad to hear some things have changed for the better.

 

[hdr777]

However, the sleeveless fleece is gonna get ya made fun of everytime. That thing is an abomination and has no place in carrier aviation.

People in corpus seemed to be able to get the fleece and vest, we couldn't get those at whiting. When I got to corpus we were told they were no longer putting in orders for the fleece, and expect at least a year wait for the vest, not a fan of the nomex jacket but it's better than just being cold so I'll wear it. I think the leather looks weird without a nametag, but I'm not gonna put one on till I get wings

No ballcaps

I wore my ballcap in primary every day I could

I'm not surprised the Marine helo mafia eventually got their way and forced all the Navy studs to wear desert flight suits along with the Marines. You know, students do better if there's some uniformity.

When I was in the primary pool, and the deputy commodore gave his weekend safety brief/took questions, someone asked if we could wear the desert flight suits in the summer, and it was a hard no. Most of the students wanted to be able to wear it so we could go through 4 flights suits and not just the 2 green ones, but his explanation made it seem like it was only gonna be wear one or the other, not both. Much better in corpus, I think it was with the summer uniform switch, but it's just wear whatever you want

 

[Gatordev]

I'm not surprised the Marine helo mafia eventually got their way and forced all the Navy studs to wear desert flight suits along with the Marines. You know, students do better if there's some uniformity. Please note that's not true everywhere in CNATRA.

I don't think it's that at all. Mid-to-late 2000's, Marines started wearing tan flight suits in the summer and Navy guys chose to wear them because they were cooler (both on the flight line, but also out in the RDO cart). There was no requirement or restriction for Navy guys. Once that became the norm, they finally started allowing students to wear them and issued them 2 and 2 because they were eventually going to get them in the fleet anyway. Then some Admiral decided no one could wear tan flight suits INCONUS in the Navy unless it was in Fallon or by special request. CNATRA authorization went away, but the gear issue process didn't change, so SNAs were stuck with only two flight suits they could wear, which is ridiculous and stinky in the summer. This was a problem all the way into the RAG for studs, who still only had two flight suits they were authorized to wear.

Finally, CNATRA got special authorization to go back to wearing tan in the summer. There was some movement afoot to get authorization in peninsular Florida by some enterprising JOs and a few Wing staff, citing that Pensacola wears them, but the movement died an early death c. 2017-ish. Meanwhile, RAG studs still only had 2 flight suits.

Bottom line, I think it's more about making life easier for the stud in CNATRA than about any kind of Marine uniform cabal.....not that those don't exist, of course.

 

[Dontcallmegump]

Bottom line, I think it's more about making life easier for the stud in CNATRA than about any kind of Marine uniform cabal.....not that those don't exist, of course.

The warmth arguement I buy.

However I've genuinely never understood the "makes life easier" line of thinking and I've heard it a few times in different places. As of now, at least at TW-5, it's still only tan in summer and only green in winter. Unless I'm missing an angle that's the same number of suits in the rotation no matter the season. Then again, I never felt undue burden with only 2. Again, again I did all my primary flying between October and May.

 

[Gatordev]

However I've genuinely never understood the "makes life easier" line of thinking and I've heard it a few times in different places. As of now, at least at TW-5, it's still only tan in summer and only green in winter. Unless I'm missing an angle that's the same number of suits in the rotation no matter the season.

If you wave your hands around when you say "it makes life easier" then it will make more sense. It's science.

I think the basic problem is no one wants to cough up the money to truly make it easier for studs and give them 4 and 2 flight suits.

 

[Dontcallmegump]

If you wave your hands around when you say "it makes life easier" then it will make more sense. It's science.

I think the basic problem is no one wants to cough up the money to truly make it easier for studs and give them 4 and 2 flight suits.

flails arms Ahhhhhh, it all makes sense now.

I'll admit I have zero understanding of the process of who pays for what. Seems like 2 and 2 is a decent compromise if the norm is to wear tan and green on a yearly basis throughout cnatra.

I just want a winter weight nomex that dosen't absorb water like a sponge...

 

[Gatordev]

I just want a winter weight nomex that dosen't absorb water like a sponge...

Unfortunately it doesn't exist. The next closest thing is the Massif, which is almost as warm and repels water for about 10 minutes. Then it has the same issue and gets sopping.

You'll get a winter weight Nomex in the fleet. They're pretty glorious on cold windy days.

 

[wlawr005]

I don't think it's that at all. Mid-to-late 2000's, Marines started wearing tan flight suits in the summer and Navy guys chose to wear them because they were cooler (both on the flight line, but also out in the RDO cart). There was no requirement or restriction for Navy guys. Once that became the norm, they finally started allowing students to wear them and issued them 2 and 2 because they were eventually going to get them in the fleet anyway. Then some Admiral decided no one could wear tan flight suits INCONUS in the Navy unless it was in Fallon or by special request. CNATRA authorization went away, but the gear issue process didn't change, so SNAs were stuck with only two flight suits they could wear, which is ridiculous and stinky in the summer. This was a problem all the way into the RAG for studs, who still only had two flight suits they were authorized to wear.

Finally, CNATRA got special authorization to go back to wearing tan in the summer. There was some movement afoot to get authorization in peninsular Florida by some enterprising JOs and a few Wing staff, citing that Pensacola wears them, but the movement died an early death c. 2017-ish. Meanwhile, RAG studs still only had 2 flight suits.

Bottom line, I think it's more about making life easier for the stud in CNATRA than about any kind of Marine uniform cabal.....not that those don't exist, of course.

I was under the impression the Navy studs were forced to wear only tan, along with the Marines, thereby relegating them to only two flight suits.

In any case, in Meridian you can wear whatever you want if you're a Navy student.

 

[Meyerkord]

I was under the impression the Navy studs were forced to wear only tan, along with the Marines, thereby relegating them to only two flight suits.

In any case, in Meridian you can wear whatever you want if you're a Navy student.

In Corpus they didn't care which you wore. There was a combo of green and tan every day. In Milton we're currently only allowed to wear tan.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

I’ve had a lot of great days in the Navy, but the day I managed to “convince” some PRs into ordering me two extra green flight suits is definitely top 5.

 

[wink]

79-80 issue was two green flight suits. Didnt have more than two until months into my fleet squadron and that was only because they wanted to send new ones for everyone to be embroidered. More would have been nice. But really, how hard is it to throw them in the wash? Hell, in the fleet, guys wore the same flight suit for weeks, just hanging it in locker and walking away. On the boat, flying summers in the IO, had two flight suits. No one seemed to have more than 2 or 3. Kids!!