Aviation Uniforms and Customs for the new ENS

[jointhelocalizer]

Hey all,

Hope you are healthy. Headed down to Pensacola as a 1390 after the summer is over. I have done some searching and have understood some basic customs/uniform unwritten rules: JOs not saluting other JOs and a first name/callsign basis among JOPA, wear brown shoes, don't wear the leather jacket until post wings, don't wear the SWOter, Ike, Khaki Combo Cover, don't wear NWUs if you can wear bags and some others. I know there are a lot. Just want to understand the aviation nuances and not get lit up for being unprofessional or at least get my name on the radar.

 

[nittany03]

Said JOPA rule does not apply to your LT instructors until you’re winged.

 

[DanMa1156]

You'll maybe get ribbed once or twice for being too professional while in flight school among your buddies (i.e.: don't greet fellow ENS's with a "Good morning Ensign Brown!" - you can say "hey Joe, good morning.") However, assume you should be that professional with your instructors until told otherwise, regardless of their rank. Others, all basic professionalism with a little gouge:

1. Keep boots and shoes shined - the students who take the attitude of "it's flammable so I don't," immediately set off the wrong tone to the brief.
2. Salute. For some reason, some studs are nervous to salute their instructors.
3. Don't call instructors by their callsigns until told to (I think VTJ does this at some point? Not common in the HTs and definitely not the VTs.)
4. Don't get overly cheeky with patches. Patches are ultimately not as cool as they used to be in the day, rules are stricter, and students shouldn't be going all Van-Gogh on them anyway - get a class patch or a squadron patch and stick with it. Wearing your favorite hockey team as a student is going to bring unwanted attention.
5. Avoid the khaki combo cover. Always keep a backup garrison cover in your car.
6. Keep a small notebook and pen on you to take notes when an instructor is giving you guidance or instruction.
7. Take what other students say about professionalism with a grain of salt and follow the rules and listen to your instructors.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Just want to understand the aviation nuances and not get lit up for being unprofessional or at least get my name on the radar.

You're not going to get "lit up". Made fun of, sure. Lit up or deemed unprofessional, no.

Live by the gouge, die by the gouge.... I'd say err on the side of the actual regulations and official protocols if in doubt as there is no reason to die by the gouge. You'll soon learn what is good and what is bullshit when it comes to the gouge.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

I'd go a touch further, and sir all instructors until you get to your fleet squadron (unless asked to call them by their callsign). Students don't have callsigns unless as a joke or they did something really stupid. Even then it won't likely follow them out of the training squadron. For all the fellow jopa students, yes first name basis is acceptable and the norm (the marines might get their panties in a wad but don't worry about them ?.

Community dependent, you will only sir the CO and XO once in the fleet squadron, and sir the DHs only in a derogatory manner. Seems the helo and maritime folk O-4s like to be sir'd, but in the tailhook communities generally it's callsigns for everyone but the front office. Nothing worse than the new intel O ENS showing up and sir sandwiching everyone.

 

[sickboy]

I’m only saying this because I’ve had this conversation too many times.

Wash your damn flight suits!

 

[HAL Pilot]

maritime folk O-4s like to be sir'd,

My JO tour was west coast P-3 and my DH tour Jax - where the term VPenis originated. I got told at least once a month by the CO and at least weekly by my fellow DHs to stop telling the JOs to call me by my first name or call sign when there were no Es or up tight DHs around. The other DHs would also tell any JO they heard calling me by my first name or call sign to stop doing so. I told the JOs that I was the senior O4 in the squadron by date of rank so I was countermanding that order.... That really pissed off one of my fellow DHs who promptly went to the XO. The XO saw the whole thing my way and told the pissed off DH to take the stick out of his ass.

On my crew, we were on a first name basis inside the airplane too. Just like my west coast upbringing. The CO rode with us one day and one of the Es forgot and called me by my first name. The CO had a fit and I was told to meet him in his office after the flight. The XO heard about it and joined us. He told the CO he ran his crew that way too. That XO was the only saving grace from the Jax VPenis mentality my entire DH tour.

There were 3 Chiefs in my DH squadron who had been E5s or E6s with me in my JO tour. The CMC would bitch to the Chiefs about my west coast ways and joyously announce to the Chief's Mess whenever the CO told me to stop the first name stuff. These 3 Chiefs used to place bets in the Chiefs Mess on which day of the month it would happen with a side bet if it would happen twice during the same month.

I still keep in contact with these 3 Chiefs. 1 was my SS-3 almost my entire JO tour and he joined my DH squadron the same week I did. He requested to be my SS-3 again and he was my entire tour, although I had a 2nd SS-3 as he was also the Ops Chief and didn't get to fly a lot.

 

[jollygreen07]

Show up on time to your brief and well prepared.

When in doubt, “sir/ma’am” if you are a student in a primary VT there is no doubt.

Don’t look like a bag of ass.

Most importantly: don’t be snotty/disrespectful/unprofessional to anyone, especially IPs and squadron staff.

 

[Jim123]

1.a. Your boots don't have to be polished enough to shave or pop zits, just keep them one color and presentable. It's not asking for much to maintain the finish better than the paint job on some meth head's 1990 Pontiac Sunfire, that's like five minutes of smear and brush once or twice a month when everyone is sitting around the student ready room waiting out a thunderstorm.

5.a. Feel free to use the combo cover as the object of friendly bets with your fellow JOs. For example: the loser has to wear his/her combo cover to their next watch or (if you want to up the ante) when checking in to the FRS.

8. If you're dumb enough to do something like check into your FRS in flip flops and a T-shirt late on a Friday afternoon so that you don't get charged leave for the weekend and your actual check in time on your orders is Monday morning, and the LT Friday SDO provides top cover and gets you out the door with your orders stamped, remember to get that guy a six pack. (Actually it was those $1 shower shoes you get at the NEX and I offered the beer- he didn't even bring it up.)

 

[Dontcallmegump]

Hey all,

Questionable pre-API notions

During your time wearing khakis daily, either just to morning muster or all day while in API it's easy to let them get dingy and lose a sharp look.

Dont be one of the many ass hats who wears the same pair every day for a month without so much as a home wash. Or worse, the guy with multiple white sweat rings on his back. You could have used his blouse to tell how hot it was the week prior while mustering...

If you're good about not spilling and aren't one of the weirdos who goes without an undershirt, the same pair can last atleast a few days before washing them at home. After a few more take them to the cleaners (the nex actually isn't bad and is quick) and get them cleaned and pressed. It's like 6$ to look sharp and have a good uniform, along with a haircut is 90% of "keeping off the radar". Especially if you get called in for any number of innocent things that could lead to a grill session if you look like shit.

 

[Dontcallmegump]

8. If you're dumb enough to do something like check into your FRS in flip flops and a T-shirt late on a Friday afternoon so that you don't get charged leave for the weekend and your actual check in time on your orders is Monday morning, and the LT Friday SDO provides top cover and gets you out the door with your orders stamped, remember to get that guy a six pack. (Actually it was those $1 shower shoes you get at the NEX and I offered the beer- he didn't even bring it up.)

OP wondering what can of worms he opened

 

[nittany03]

Oh, and it bears emphasizing . . . if you're issued a leather jacket, wear the damn leather jacket. There are those of us poor bastards who back in olden days got caught in a supply shortage, and ended up getting busted on by O-6s for having to wear the Ike when it was 30 degrees outside.

The only "jinx" is not studying and not knowing your stuff, and the only thing you're not authorized to wear before being winged is, uh, wings.

 

[loadtoad]

Oh, and it bears emphasizing . . . if you're issued a leather jacket, wear the damn leather jacket. There are those of us poor bastards who back in olden days got caught in a supply shortage, and ended up getting busted on by O-6s for having to wear the Ike when it was 30 degrees outside.

The only "jinx" is not studying and not knowing your stuff, and the only thing you're not authorized to wear before being winged is, uh, wings.

100% agree. Just like brown shoes, it's our heritage and tradition which should be embraced. You 'earned' those by getting your commission and into Naval Aviation. The only thing you don't get to wear is wings on your chest until earned.

Welcome to Naval Aviation.

 

[TexasTools]

Oh, and it bears emphasizing . . . if you're issued a leather jacket, wear the damn leather jacket. There are those of us poor bastards who back in olden days got caught in a supply shortage, and ended up getting busted on by O-6s for having to wear the Ike when it was 30 degrees outside.

The only "jinx" is not studying and not knowing your stuff, and the only thing you're not authorized to wear before being winged is, uh, wings.

Back when I was in VT-10, I was in khakis one day for schedule routing duty (never knew or really cared why that required khakis). I put on the Ike jacket since it was chilly that afternoon. The skipper saw me and asked if I had a leather jacket. When I replied that I did, he told me, “If you want to wear that SWO jacket, wear black shoes like a SWO. If you think wearing a leather jacket is going to make you fail, study harder.” Haven’t touched the Ike since.

 

[nittany03]

During your time wearing khakis daily, either just to morning muster or all day while in API it's easy to let them get dingy and lose a sharp look.

Dont be one of the many ass hats who wears the same pair every day for a month without so much as a home wash. Or worse, the guy with multiple white sweat rings on his back. You could have used his blouse to tell how hot it was the week prior while mustering...

If you're good about not spilling and aren't one of the weirdos who goes without an undershirt, the same pair can last atleast a few days before washing them at home. After a few more take them to the cleaners (the nex actually isn't bad and is quick) and get them cleaned and pressed. It's like 6$ to look sharp and have a good uniform, along with a haircut is 90% of "keeping off the radar". Especially if you get called in for any number of innocent things that could lead to a grill session if you look like shit.

I gotta be honest . . . a lot of this is Officer 101. My first fleet Skipper put it best. I can't quote him exactly, but it was words to the effect of "if you want to succeed and have a career in Naval Aviation, you have to realize that the frat boy act is ultimately just an act. When it really counts, you still have to be a Navy officer first and foremost." Sure, aviation culture at its best is partially about lampooning self-important bullshit. At least as a fleet JO. But we let our JOs do that for a reason, and that's because lampooning unnecessary crap highlights our focus on getting the important shit right: not getting our folks killed, and being lethal in combat.

But those who want to wear gold wings had also better keep in mind that it's not all choker whites and dinings out, so to speak. It's also not all getting shitfaced at the bar with your bros. You're going to have Sailors you're in charge of one day who have a shittier and harder job on their best day at work than you do on your worst. They work long hours turning wrenches fixing your aircraft, and deal with a lot more petty crap in the process. We have BAH and wardrooms underway that serve Sunday brunch. They have barracks inspections and shitty long lines for the mess decks. Sure, we run around in bags all day, and that's great. But if you can't also turn on the spit, polish, and professionalism when it's necessary, you're in the wrong job. Because you're going to have to do uniform inspections and barracks inspections. You're going to have to take Sailors to Captain's Mast. And you'd damn well better believe you're being watched in the process. By both your head shed/DHs and your troops.

When you get to P-Cola, you're going to see some Ensigns do some really dumb shit. They fell through the cracks and will weed themselves out before hitting the fleet. Don't be that guy/that girl.