I used to know a bunch of guys like that. Except, we called them Electrician Mates.Bevo said:
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AW (Aviation Warfare Systems Operator) Questions
- Thread starter fpdesignco
- Start date
@Brett:
I said the rate was demanding. The job may not always be very demanding (like playing PS2 in the aircrew shop when not flying), but advancing in the rate is not easy. Lot's of stuff to know.
Yup, CSAR is not in our bag of tricks, I'll give you that. So how do you get 100 hours of combat time and then have 1500+ total? I take it that's guys who've been in since 9/11?
Either your Bravo buddies are jackasses or things have become very different in the last 9 months. Yes, we don't always fly w/ goggles because we have to keep our night mins. Otherwise, it's pretty much goggle time (I'm talking deployment).
That statement doesn't really make any sense. When we do SAR, we have two crewman onboard. But if SAR isn't our primary mission, which around the boat, IS your primary mission, yeah, we probably don't have two crewman since we only have 3 crewman total deployed. However, if there are two crewman onboard for whatever the mission is, one SHALL have their gear (provided it's not down, of course).
That's definitely true. Do your AWs just work in the AW shop while deployed, or do they get any other collateral duties? I ask because our AWs are also ALSS guys. Beyond that, it's always a constant battle w/ the Det chief on trying to get the AWs to contribute to maintenance (whether you agree w/ that practice or not).
For the shoes maybe, but as for ASW in the aircraft, it's our one AW that's doing everything. There really isn't anything the ASTAC does for us in the aircraft that we need, other than occasionally updating our plot w/ the ship's plot, and that just screws up the problem. Unless the ship ASW team is really good, we usually operate in HELO control the whole time anyway, so they can see our data, but can't do anything to it for us, only for their own purposes.
I appreciate the info. It's always interesting to learn stuff about other communities. Something that I used to always bug HH-60H about, just to learn what you guys do. But besides CSAR, I still don't see what it is that you guys do that we don't. It's mostly the same stuff, but in a different frequency w/ different gear.
I said the rate was demanding. The job may not always be very demanding (like playing PS2 in the aircrew shop when not flying), but advancing in the rate is not easy. Lot's of stuff to know.
Bevo said:
Yup, CSAR is not in our bag of tricks, I'll give you that. So how do you get 100 hours of combat time and then have 1500+ total? I take it that's guys who've been in since 9/11?
Either your Bravo buddies are jackasses or things have become very different in the last 9 months. Yes, we don't always fly w/ goggles because we have to keep our night mins. Otherwise, it's pretty much goggle time (I'm talking deployment).
That statement doesn't really make any sense. When we do SAR, we have two crewman onboard. But if SAR isn't our primary mission, which around the boat, IS your primary mission, yeah, we probably don't have two crewman since we only have 3 crewman total deployed. However, if there are two crewman onboard for whatever the mission is, one SHALL have their gear (provided it's not down, of course).
That's definitely true. Do your AWs just work in the AW shop while deployed, or do they get any other collateral duties? I ask because our AWs are also ALSS guys. Beyond that, it's always a constant battle w/ the Det chief on trying to get the AWs to contribute to maintenance (whether you agree w/ that practice or not).
For the shoes maybe, but as for ASW in the aircraft, it's our one AW that's doing everything. There really isn't anything the ASTAC does for us in the aircraft that we need, other than occasionally updating our plot w/ the ship's plot, and that just screws up the problem. Unless the ship ASW team is really good, we usually operate in HELO control the whole time anyway, so they can see our data, but can't do anything to it for us, only for their own purposes.
I appreciate the info. It's always interesting to learn stuff about other communities. Something that I used to always bug HH-60H about, just to learn what you guys do. But besides CSAR, I still don't see what it is that you guys do that we don't. It's mostly the same stuff, but in a different frequency w/ different gear.
Gator,
Our mission around the boat is a lot more than just SAR. We have requirements to be in the area during flight ops, but force defense is our big mission. Keeping the BRC clear of surface traffic can be an interesting task. Once launched, we check in with with the surface mod, and we go all over the area marking contacts and keeping the ship updated with what they are and where they are going. Some guys like to poke fun at HS guys and think that all we do is starboard D. The only time we are in the delta pattern is during CQ. Most of the time around the boat is spent clearing area for the CVN or making log runs.
Sorry that my 100 hour/1500 hour thing confused you. What I was trying to say that we had some individuals who had had over 100 combat hours in that 4 1/2 month period that we were in the gulf (we rotated guys between the boat and the beach every 2 weeks). The shop as a whole (about 20 AW's) logged 1500+ combat hours.
Our AW's do have ground jobs. Most of the work for the operations department, but we have a couple that work for the NATOPS officer, Tactics-O, Safety O, etc. None of them do maintenance on the birds, but they do all have their PC qual so they can do TA inspections.
Our mission around the boat is a lot more than just SAR. We have requirements to be in the area during flight ops, but force defense is our big mission. Keeping the BRC clear of surface traffic can be an interesting task. Once launched, we check in with with the surface mod, and we go all over the area marking contacts and keeping the ship updated with what they are and where they are going. Some guys like to poke fun at HS guys and think that all we do is starboard D. The only time we are in the delta pattern is during CQ. Most of the time around the boat is spent clearing area for the CVN or making log runs.
Sorry that my 100 hour/1500 hour thing confused you. What I was trying to say that we had some individuals who had had over 100 combat hours in that 4 1/2 month period that we were in the gulf (we rotated guys between the boat and the beach every 2 weeks). The shop as a whole (about 20 AW's) logged 1500+ combat hours.
Our AW's do have ground jobs. Most of the work for the operations department, but we have a couple that work for the NATOPS officer, Tactics-O, Safety O, etc. None of them do maintenance on the birds, but they do all have their PC qual so they can do TA inspections.
etnuclearsailor
STA 21 Nuclear OC
Let me tell you something about enlisted recruiters.
Your recruiter does not want you to get into the NROTC or the USNA. Going to either program would cause him to lose you and get him one person away from his quota.
Loans are given to new college students all the time. High schoolers aren't expected to have credit. Fill out a FAFSA as was said above and apply for a scholarship to the NROTC at the same time.
You should know that you can still join the NROTC even if you don't have a scholarship. If you can find away to scrape together the dough for the first year, and you perform extremely well, there is a three year scholarship available.
Keep in mind the NROTC application will include your transcript. Said transcript should show your turn around, and that will work in your favor. There are also interviews where you will get a chance to plead your case. You should also endevor to blow away the SAT or ACT. This will all work in your favor. If you volunteer or play sports, those are icing to a cake you should be preparing. Since you're a junior, there is still plenty of time.
If you can't get an NROTC scholarship now, an enlisted commissioning program such as STA 21 will not come any easier. While they look for top notch sailors, they also want to know you can handle the academics. The SAT/ACT scores for the STA 21 Officer Candidates are on the average much higher than those of your average Midshipman. Also, STA 21 OCs tend to have much higher GPA's than Midshipmen. To give an example, I think the average GPA of a MIDN in our Battalion is in the 2.9-3.2 range. The average of the OCs would be somewhere in the 3.5-3.7 range. Several OCs have 4.0 GPAs, most don't have anything lower than a 3.4, none are lower than a 3.0. Getting in to STA 21 is much harder than getting into the NROTC or even the USNA as a civillian. Take the opportunity you have now, boost your GPA and get into the program.
Your recruiter does not want you to get into the NROTC or the USNA. Going to either program would cause him to lose you and get him one person away from his quota.
Loans are given to new college students all the time. High schoolers aren't expected to have credit. Fill out a FAFSA as was said above and apply for a scholarship to the NROTC at the same time.
You should know that you can still join the NROTC even if you don't have a scholarship. If you can find away to scrape together the dough for the first year, and you perform extremely well, there is a three year scholarship available.
Keep in mind the NROTC application will include your transcript. Said transcript should show your turn around, and that will work in your favor. There are also interviews where you will get a chance to plead your case. You should also endevor to blow away the SAT or ACT. This will all work in your favor. If you volunteer or play sports, those are icing to a cake you should be preparing. Since you're a junior, there is still plenty of time.
If you can't get an NROTC scholarship now, an enlisted commissioning program such as STA 21 will not come any easier. While they look for top notch sailors, they also want to know you can handle the academics. The SAT/ACT scores for the STA 21 Officer Candidates are on the average much higher than those of your average Midshipman. Also, STA 21 OCs tend to have much higher GPA's than Midshipmen. To give an example, I think the average GPA of a MIDN in our Battalion is in the 2.9-3.2 range. The average of the OCs would be somewhere in the 3.5-3.7 range. Several OCs have 4.0 GPAs, most don't have anything lower than a 3.4, none are lower than a 3.0. Getting in to STA 21 is much harder than getting into the NROTC or even the USNA as a civillian. Take the opportunity you have now, boost your GPA and get into the program.
Bevo said:
I wasn't intending to poke fun at you guys, as I know you do more than just SAR. I'm guessing, however, that often times while you're conducting SSC (hey, we do that too), that it's in between cycles. So while I am no means saying all you do is SAR, it's fair to say that it's one of the big reasons you guys exist during certain parts of the day. It isn't meant as a dig (our big reason to exist is to put a moving radar in the sky, as exciting as that is).
Copy all.
Yeah, same-same for us back home.
During flight ops, we only have to be within 20 miles of the CVN during the day, 10 at night. The limits do not get closer during a cycle. Actually, if it is between cycles, we can go beyond those limits if we need to make a deck hit or investigate a contact outside of the area.
If there was once piece of gear that I would steal from you guys, it would be the radar. Being able to pick up a contact and cue the FLIR directly to that point would make IDing contacts a lot faster. It would take some of the fun out of flying past them at 150 feet to read the names though.
If there was once piece of gear that I would steal from you guys, it would be the radar. Being able to pick up a contact and cue the FLIR directly to that point would make IDing contacts a lot faster. It would take some of the fun out of flying past them at 150 feet to read the names though.
Bevo said:
Something to always remember though is that the helo isn't operating in a vacuum. At any given time, you are either an extension of the ship's sensors or if need be, an extension of its weapon systems...both of which get channeled through the TAO. The ASTAC is just a "go-between", placed in the middle b/t the TAO and the helo.GatorDev said:
Riiiigggghhhhht.Bevo said:I would say that the tin can is more of an extention of the helo than than the other way around. After all, you guys are the target that we are out there protecting.
Spot
11.5 years and counting boat free
fpdesignco said:
If you like electronics and stuff like that, you can enlist under an aircrew contract (if you do decide to enlist), and when in boot camp, choose the AT rating. That's the route I took and I've loved every bit of it. The A-school is long (5 months if I remember correctly), but not too difficult. Then, you have your specific school for your platform (most likely P-3's if you're AT Aircrew) which takes another 6 to 8 months I think. That's when you learn the correct way to kick the s#!* out of the boxes on the aircraft and get them to work again. They've redone the training pipeline for In-Flight Technicians, so it may be a little different.
But once you get to a squadron and get qualified, it's wheels up, heels up unless you're raining steel on subs.
I really loved being an IFT because you learn every system on the aircraft and know how it works and how it should look when it is being operated. Most of the ground technicians see how it looks when it is tested, but not how it looks when you are on-station. That knowledge really helps you out when you are fixing stuff on the ground and you become a go-to guy when they have difficult problems they have questions on.
If you are interested in the AT track, shoot me a PM and I'll try to answer any questions you have.
paikea
Eight-year-olds, Dude.
fpdesignco said:
Don't let that discourage you. Consider community college then switch into a four-year school in your junior year (college) for the two-year NROTC program. It'll give you time to clean up your grades/scores and a second shot at those scholarships. It would essentially work like this:
- Finish HS
- Go to a community college
- Finish all your GE's
- Do **** hot in your sophomore year
- Apply to the college of your choice with an ROTC unit
- Apply to the unit if you're admitted to the college
- Apply for the scholarship
- The summer before your junior year you'll need to attend NSI (Naval Science Institute) to catch up with all the other four-years
- Finish college
paikea
Eight-year-olds, Dude.
Agreed, although sometimes it's a needless speedbump in the process.
Bevo said:I would say that the tin can is more of an extention of the helo than than the other way around. After all, you guys are the target that we are out there protecting.
On most frigates, I would agree. With other classes, it's variable.
OK, lets be realistic. Maybe the young man should go to college first. I would surely fill out the fafso and see what I gualify for if I were in his shoes. But with a 2.7 GPA a NROTC scholorship is not an option. If he really nails the SAT, say well over 1360, he may have a small chance. But I don't see it.
Actually, getting some loans and going to a state school or even starting at a community college is not a bad idea. If you get through 2 good years without starving you can try for a 2 year ROTC gig. If you can't make it through the first two years then you can still enlist and you will have a leg up on your further studies and will likely do better on the ASVAB, giving you more enlisted options.
Actually, getting some loans and going to a state school or even starting at a community college is not a bad idea. If you get through 2 good years without starving you can try for a 2 year ROTC gig. If you can't make it through the first two years then you can still enlist and you will have a leg up on your further studies and will likely do better on the ASVAB, giving you more enlisted options.