I'm still at the rag (just approaching NATOPS time) so I really don't know yet. HH-60H would probably know better then me. If someone doesn't chime in, I'll ask at work tomorrow.
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B-52 mistakenly loaded/flies with Nukes...idiots
- Thread starter FLYTPAY
- Start date
GulfBreezeGuy
Homegrown SNA
Hopefully this will give our brass some ammo to fend off their villainous attempt to snatch Army, Marine, and Navy UAVs. "As soon as you remember where you put all your nukes, AF, well let you play outside with your toy robot."
I read somewhere that the munitions squadron commander was relieved. I wonder how far up the chain people will be relieved if the AF COS is briefing the SECDEF every day about nukes. Apparently the President was notified when it happend too. The AF's Air Combat Command is having a stand down for all units whether they're involved with nukes or not.
Do you guys --- probably carrier-capable 'rons only --- still plan/do SIOP missions??? No OPSEC herein is being violated, so un-lax -- just a simple "da" or "nyet" will suffice ....
Not really.......
Well, talking to one of our resident BUFF guys......he had the following to say:
They really don't mess with the nukes, the ordies have all their procedures and apparently load and unload all sorts of stuff on the birds all of the time. Just like our guys......
If there are live missiles hanging off your wing it is hard to tell if they are lead or live in the nose.
They were ferrying missiles and expected them to be there, the warheads were not. Like noted above, apprently hard to tell the difference.......don't ask, can't tell.....
Here is the kicker, they don't preflight the whole aircraft sometimes because it is just 'too big', teh ground crew does a lot of it......he is an EWO and may not know better, but I thought that was funny......
They really don't mess with the nukes, the ordies have all their procedures and apparently load and unload all sorts of stuff on the birds all of the time. Just like our guys......
If there are live missiles hanging off your wing it is hard to tell if they are lead or live in the nose.
They were ferrying missiles and expected them to be there, the warheads were not. Like noted above, apprently hard to tell the difference.......don't ask, can't tell.....
Here is the kicker, they don't preflight the whole aircraft sometimes because it is just 'too big', teh ground crew does a lot of it......he is an EWO and may not know better, but I thought that was funny......
Bullet
New Member
You cant see the warhead in the missile, you have to take it apart. As far as that idiot on TV saying the pilots should know about it, nope, its a 1960's jet there is no exact weigh gauge or something on it.
Its like giving someone a 9mm round with no powder in a clip. You dont know, you just think it has powder and fire away.
Total rubbish the USAF guys don't know their $@$. Noone talks to anyone for a reason. It bites you later.
Bullet
New Member
Your EW friend obviously hasnt done a NORI/NORE. Granted in a NORI/E noone takes the missile apart because of all the safeguards built in. In the nuke world you cant have one person knowing/holding the keys to the mushroom cloud.
So one person can load, but can't arm
One person can shoot but can't load
its part of the checks and balances. And could be in some cases like the firing squad, noone knows exact what round hit what.
Huh? NORI/NORE?
Bullet
New Member
Nuclear operational readiness Inspection/exercise.
BS.
There always has to be 2 man control over a nuke. At least 2 man to load (it takes more), 2 men to transport, etc. Never is a single person allowed around a nuke unless it is hanging on a single seat aircraft that is airborne. Then the 2 man rule is preserved in single seat aircraft through the arming process.
The pilot/crew in the Navy is part of the loading process. I don't think he is in the Air Force but I know that he is as part of the preflight/verifying the weapons actually loaded.
In the nuke arena, the pilot/crew always know where their round is aimed and what their mission objective is.
I have been through many nuke weapons inspections and I was a carrier Nuclear Weapons Officer.
I will agree that it can be hard to tell a shape/training device from the real thing. Especially if you are just verifying serial numbers on a missile that supposedly doesn't have the nuke package inside.
This is the second thread you've where you've made totally BS comments (Predator Fire Fighting being the other). Do you just make things up for the hell of it?
Well, with as much security and procedures that are in place compared to conventional ordnance, I am flabbergasted that the simple conventional practice of painting appropriate markings on the components wasn't used and if it was, why wasn't it noticed on preflight. Our rocket motors and warheads all have markings to indicate live or inert. In this case, if ththe wahead section could be either way depending on how it was configured so that markings would not work, there are other options so loading crews and aircrews know what they have loaded. Regardless, no aircrew should conclude their preflight without knowing what's hanging on their aircraft and inspecting it to make sure loading was completed properly. That applies to conventional and other things hanging on or inside your aircraft. Even if someone else messes up, you'll be standing tall when someone falls off the aircraft unintentionally. Regardless, care and handling of these type weapons has always been under a zero defect mentality so there was a significant breakdown in their proven process and procedures for this to happen. It's no surprise as to actions that have been taken immediately and my guess is they won't stop there as accountability for the lapse is determined.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
On a totally different (but not wholly unrelated) topic... When I checked into my first fleet squadron, I was the pubs officer (among other things). While cleaning out the pubs locker to make room for the correct sectionals, etc... I came across about 10 flight manuals of some sort that covered the procedures for transporting nuclear weapons in the CH-46E. I tossed all but 1, with the thought that if the mission ever came up - we could photocopy the one we had. No one ever missed them.
People can say, "Blah Blah there was no way we would have actually launched it balh blah it was still totally safe blah blah" all they want. Not be crass, but c'mon.
Arms control is a S-E-R-I-O-U-S business, and our political relations with other countries often get caught up on the very topic of nuclear security and accountability. (For the US it is more often hinged on the second, FYI, but we are more concerned with the first for other countries.)
Personally, I have more than a few problems with this whole ordeal, knowing only what I know (which is nothing in regards to the technical stuff or procedures for loading a nuke on a B-52). The fact is there should be more safeguards in place to stop that nuke from ever reaching the jet without the *right* people authorizing it. This is literally exactly what we blast the former USSR nuclear powers for doing.
Forget for a moment all the crap the aircrew may or may not have failed to do (probably a lot, but I really don't know). Think about the process of taking a high-yield nuclear weapon out of its secure storage area, putting it on a loading platform, walking it past security (or lack there-of)--eeeeerrrrrtttt....stop right there. They took a nuclear weapon away from its secure area without anyone knowing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mean, seriously. I could go on and on about the safeguards that are supposed to be in place to prevent that exact event. I bet a lot of guys on here could. And I am only talking about the stuff we have agreed to for political and large-scale security reasons.
It seems the SECDEF is of a similar mindset as his briefing schedule suggests. There was a HUGE error here, not just at the crew level, but at the entire nuclear weapon safeguard level. Yikes.
Arms control is a S-E-R-I-O-U-S business, and our political relations with other countries often get caught up on the very topic of nuclear security and accountability. (For the US it is more often hinged on the second, FYI, but we are more concerned with the first for other countries.)
Personally, I have more than a few problems with this whole ordeal, knowing only what I know (which is nothing in regards to the technical stuff or procedures for loading a nuke on a B-52). The fact is there should be more safeguards in place to stop that nuke from ever reaching the jet without the *right* people authorizing it. This is literally exactly what we blast the former USSR nuclear powers for doing.
Forget for a moment all the crap the aircrew may or may not have failed to do (probably a lot, but I really don't know). Think about the process of taking a high-yield nuclear weapon out of its secure storage area, putting it on a loading platform, walking it past security (or lack there-of)--eeeeerrrrrtttt....stop right there. They took a nuclear weapon away from its secure area without anyone knowing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mean, seriously. I could go on and on about the safeguards that are supposed to be in place to prevent that exact event. I bet a lot of guys on here could. And I am only talking about the stuff we have agreed to for political and large-scale security reasons.
It seems the SECDEF is of a similar mindset as his briefing schedule suggests. There was a HUGE error here, not just at the crew level, but at the entire nuclear weapon safeguard level. Yikes.
In spite of your username ... I'm gonna have to assume you're NOT a marksman nor a red shirt.
It's a magazine sir, not a clip.
Magazine (left) ... clip (right)
/seemingly never-ending magazine/clip threadjack .... where's Fly when we need him ???
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Watch out... Steve/LEL might disagree and tell you that this is a magazine:In spite of your username ... I'm gonna have to assume you're NOT a marksman nor a red shirt.
It's a magazine sir, not a clip.
Magazine (left) ... clip (right)
/seemingly never-ending magazine/clip threadjack .... where's Fly when we need him ???
